German Shepherd dog

I would really love to hear some advice, especially from breeders/sellers about our situation.  I will try to keep this as brief as possible ...

we purchased our shepherd one year ago.  she is 5 yrs old now and has previously had 4 litters (11 the first time, then 4 and then two litters of 2).  when we bought her (as a family pet & protection dog) the seller discounted the price on her, on the condition that we breed her (he paid stud fee) and give him a puppy.  the 1st time we bred her back in the spring, she didn't get pregnant.  the 2nd time she did and she had only 2 puppies again.  the 1st puppy was stillborn (very heart-breaking) and the 2nd one survived and is doing great.  the puppy is almost 2 weeks old now. so by contract we are to give this puppy back to the seller.  the seller told us that he has already found a buyer for her (he is selling her to a "client") and that the client has already put down a $500 deposit for her.  The puppy is being sold for $1,950.

our dilemma is that our family has absolutely fallen in love with this puppy!!!  i know it is harder for us since our shepherd only had one surviving puppy.  if she would've had more, we had already planned on keeping a pup for ourselves.  my urgent question is this ... is it acceptable practice for the seller (the other man) to cancel the sale with his "client", refund their deposit and sell the puppy to us??  we are willing to pay him $2,000 for her.  i am hoping that he will have a compassionate heart & understand how attached our family has become to this puppy.  we have 2 young children that just adore her.  our dog lives in the house with us, so we are in direct contact with the mother & puppy at all time.  it just makes us sick to our stomachs when we think about having to give her up in 6 weeks.  we did not plan to breed our dog again as we feel like she has had enough litters and should be retired from breeding.  is this normal to retire at this age / # of litters produced?  she is in excellent health and comes from an incredible bloodline.  and obviously her puppies are worth alot. but her health and well-being is more important to us, rather than breeding her breed again.     

i know this may be hard for those who are in this for the "business" (such as this seller) to understand the emotional side of how we feel.  we would just like to know if it ok in this business to cancel a sale and sell to someone else, considering the circumstances.  THANK YOU in advance for a prompt reply.  We wanted some advice before we approach the seller with the offer of us buying the puppy.  We plan to contact him within the next day. 

Absolutely.  Make the offer.  At that price I would ask the seller to do whatever guarantees and support he would have done for the buyer who already has the deposit in place.  You should definately take priority over this random buyer.  I would also want to be certain the pup passes the basic health exam at 8 weeks at the vet's office.  It would be quite tragic if the pup has some sort of issue (ie heart problem). 

I'm sure the seller likely has additional litters coming up that he can persuade the other person to buy from.

Wow, everyone responded at the same time I did :-)  If the seller can persuade the other buyer...fine.  But if he cannot...the other buyer may have been dreaming about this pup for a long while.  How long has he had a deposit on the pup?  He committed with his $500 deposit, and deserves consideration for HIS feelings too.  Veronica

Attachment is an "occupational hazard" but I'm with those who feel the contact must be honored. The seller's reputation is at stake, as is yours.

One thing that I have learned through the years, is that with puppies, horses, whatever - there will be you love just as much  in the future.

I wouldn't try to convince the seller to sell it to you, the math doesn't make sense since the bitch is yours, and why strain your credibility and make him wish he hadn't worked with you?

This breed sorely needs people that stand by their word. It starts with each one of us.

GEEZE,, You need to hope the person on the other end of the contract has a heart,,I have seen breeders that stick it right to you on a contract no matter how you cry.Some of us, if we feel we are being taken advantage of can be real son of a guns to deal with.The coin could fall either way.If he wants that puppy for himself you could in for a tough negotiation..Good luck I hope you get to keep the pup..

Problem 1: You have a contract.

In your favor: if this breeder to whom you must hand over the puppy would care to continue doing business with you, he would do well with negotiating with you.

Problem 2: Because this is a "fantastic" pup, and if the breeder has gotten a sense you really might want it, it could be a ploy to get more money out of you.

Possible solution: "Spit in his soup." You can stretch the truth and try to make the pup sound less desirable to you. You should not use an outright lie. Think like a salesperson in reverse.

Too many people use dog breeding to make money. I hate to sound elitist, but that is a bad way of maintaining/improving the breed. I have the luxury of having a career with dogs where we look #1 to find the best placement for our dogs. I would prefer to give a dog to a great owner than to make a killing and have the dog go to a disasterous owner.

Good luck!

Leon

If nothing else the seller should give you a repeat stud service free since you only have one living pup, and try to see if the person who put a deposit on the living pup will wait for another pup.

thanks for the advice so far, even though some might not be what i wanted to hear.  :)

so if i understand "AgarPhraniStraze1" in their response above ... a seller CAN back out of an agreement to sell & return the deposit to the buyer, if the seller so chooses?  that was my main question - a seller does have the right to do that??  i don't think i agree though that the seller would be putting his reputation on the line if he chose to do this.  that just seems like that is the perrogative of being the seller. 

of course we will have to go with whatever the seller wants to do.  we did sign a contract and we are people of integrity.  however, we would like to put the offer on the table & see if there is a possibility that the seller can work out something with the other buyer, so that we might be able to purchase the puppy ourselves.   

all this is exactly why we are not "breeders"!  we just simply love the breed & have never owned anything other than german shepherds.  the ones we have had over the years become part of our family - pure & simple.  but because we get so attached, it would be heart-renching to do this as a business.  :( 

thanks again for everyone taking the time to respond - I really appreciate it!

loveshepherds- yes the seller does have the right to do what they want as they want for whatever reason they want.  However if you are a breeder and treat it as a "business" it wouldn't be wise to make a habit of pulling the plug on puppy buyers who've placed deposits on your dogs.  Word gets around fast and with dogs it doesn't take much to get a bad rap. But yes exceptions do get made a special circumstances do arise that would give the seller the right to do as they wish.  It won't hurt to ask.

I missed the two weeks old part...how could you know for sure this pup is right for your family at this age?  It might be totally wrong for you!  All of this angst for a pup that doesn't have a real personality yet?  At two weeks, they are just little milk sucking whiny grubs with legs, LOL.  Veronica

I caught that too SNP.....  Not to mention the one breeding that did not take.  Hopefully, the bitch will be given a break at the very least after this litter.

I read the part about 5 litters but didn't want to open up a can of worms. lol  I agree she's already been bred out the ars and should be given a rest.  I did not catch the part about the pup being only 2 weeks old; must've skimmed over that.  Again I agree with the others that there's nothing to tell about the pup at that point except who the parents are.  It's a cute little pup at this point and that's really about all. 

I have found myself get attached to certain pups but not within a 2 week period.  That usually comes later on when they establish a personality and become more active.  Usually by 6 weeks I am torn between seeing my "favorites" go but by 8 weeks I was so spent chasing after em, cleaning up after them and caring for them that it was a relief when they'd all go to their homes.

It never hurts to ask.....   

Be honest and aboveboard with the person you got the bitch from...  He/she may well be willing to compromise, but you are honor bound to provide the puppy if they insist.  You would of course have an option of breeding her again and keeping a pup from the next litter with no strings as long as you pay the stud service.  And believe me You'll fall for a pup in that litter as well. The breeder may be willing to take a pup from the next litter, or allow you to purchase the pup from them so they're not out anything.  But as others have said, it's up to their choice... as by contract you do owe them the pup both in exchange for the studfee and for the discount on her purchase.

One thing that puzzles me is why she's producing smaller and smaller litters... to drop from a 1st litter of 11 to only one in this litter seems of consern.  Maybe have the vet do a Vag culture even if you're not planning on breeding her to be sure there's not some uterine infection there effecting fertility, and which could cause problems even if not bred again.  I'd say that a healthy bitch who produces well and easily could be bred at least thru 6 years of age without issue, especially if they get a rest between litters.

just a quick note about a few of the replies that were posted about our situation, that I wanted to clarify ....

windwalker - we did have a vaginal culture done and she's clear.  our vet thinks that the reason she only has had a few pups in the last couple of litters is either because she is not putting out many eggs now &/or it is VERY hard to tell when she ovulates, because she spikes so quickly. 

snp - not sure what you meant about the "puppy farming" comment.  we only bred her this once & we will definitely get her spayed soon.  her other litters were not with us.  i totally agree that she needs a break! 

also, it was also said that there was no mention of the hips/elbows being done.  not sure what this had to do with my question/situation, but ..... our female has had all that done by the SV in Germany.  her hips AND elbows are both "a1" and her Zuchwert rating is 78.