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X-RAYS, please help

        





X-RAYS, please help (13 replies)

X-RAYS, please help
by Uber Land on 29 August 2008 - 06:08


Uber Land

Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:33 pm

Can someone give me their honest opinions about these x-rays.  it is of a 3 yr old bitch.  Are these poor x-rays, bad positioning?  what rating would you think? the right hip looks good, nice setting in the socket, but the left isn't so inside the socket.  they don't look terrible to me, maybe a fair, but I am not sure.  I think with better positioning and maybe a few months of swimming exercises, the hip would look better. 

THIS FEMALE IS FULL GERMAN SHOWLINES, 2,3 linebred on VA1 Rikkor Bad Boll.  I am not her breeder. I sold her last year to a man "as is" no gaurantee's at a greatly reduced price.  he tried to breed her once already but she didn't take, now he has x-rayed her and told me her left hip wasn't even in the socket and she has HD. 

I have shown these x-rays to several people already who have told me it is poor positioning.  but I would like as many opinions as I can get

Edited by Uber Land on Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:33 pm ::

X-RAYS, please help
by ziegenfarm on 29 August 2008 - 06:08


ziegenfarm

Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 04:05 pm

it looks like their equipment is capable of taking a nice, clear xray, but.......whoever told you that the positioning was terrible is absolutely correct.  these are terrible films.  they should have offered to re-do them at no cost.  if they didn't, you need to ask them about it.  i seriously doubt that ofa would ever accept films of this nature.

left hip is not as good as it could be, but better positioning might make a difference.

pjp


X-RAYS, please help
by Martin on 29 August 2008 - 07:08
Martin

Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 06:16 pm

I agree with Ziegenfarm, positioning is very bad.

 

However these are not dysplastic hips. They will not get the best scores probably, not they are not too bad either, clinically speaking. I dont think the dog will have any problems with them in any stage of life, given that she's kept properly of course. BUt thats true for any dog.

So depending on  the agreement you had with him, you dont neccesserily have to do anything about it. Looks, like he's more pissed with the female not taking, as he bred her without any xrays in the first place... 


X-RAYS, please help
by eichenluft on 29 August 2008 - 07:08
eichenluft

Posts: 1715
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 06:19 pm

The first ones are not even worth looking at.  The positioning, both of the dog (twisted and not straight on the table) and the legs (one higher than the other, one knee turned in the other out) - could not be worse.  The last one is the straightest, and in that one you can clearly see both hips are seated in the sockets, everything looks clean and I would say her hips would pass with at least Fair, she is definately not dysplastic.

When I have someone questioning their dogs' hips, I tell them unless it is very obvious (obviously very good or very bad) that I will not consider a refund/replacement (due to the hips) unless the x-rays are good enough quality to send to OFA - and then I take the opinion of OFA only.  I will not take the opinion of any "regular" vet, especially one that takes such terrible x-rays and tells you the hip isn't even in the socket.  Changing vets would be the next thing recommended.

 

molly


X-RAYS, please help
by dogshome9 on 29 August 2008 - 10:08


dogshome9

Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 05:06 am

 

 

These are some of the worst  x-rays that I have ever seen, the exposure is very good but the positioning is absolutly terrible. your vet should redo them

at no charge to you.


X-RAYS, please help
by Bob-O on 29 August 2008 - 12:08


Bob-O

Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 08:24 pm

These hips should pass the examination. They are not dysplastic in regards to joint conformation.

 I cannot say the same about the veterinarian's skills in positioning. He failed. Positioning is absolutely critical for this type of radiograph, and it must be of a quality for submission to the O.F.A., S.V., et al.

Regards,

Bob-O


X-RAYS, please help
by B.Andersen on 29 August 2008 - 13:08
B.Andersen

Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 03:09 am

Do not send those in. Get another film


X-RAYS, please help
by Jen_j41 on 29 August 2008 - 13:08
Jen_j41

Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 05:04 pm

The positioning is terrible, I would consider having them redone, and then send them. The OFA might even send them back to the vet who did them, saying that they need to be redone....

 

Jen


X-RAYS, please help
by Blitzen on 29 August 2008 - 15:08
Blitzen

Posts: 5261
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 06:49 am

OFA will never accept these xrays; they are not diagnostic by any means. She will probably get a fair or a good, but never with these xrays. Also have the new vet tranquilize her; it looks as if she was fighting the manipulation.


X-RAYS, please help
by Estweyn on 29 August 2008 - 15:08
Estweyn

Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 09:04 pm

Bad positioning but the left hip looks to be worse than the right, but I have x rays of a dysplastic bitch from 15 yrs ago score 43:43 and they are nothing like hers, she was never unsound and never went lame.  But she worked and did agility so the vet considered the muscles were so strongly developed they helped her keep her hips in the sockets (what sockets) she was off a 0:0 score import dog and a bitch who had a total score of 7. 

I would get better x rays and a score, also I had an opinion once from the BVA on a bitch I bought who went lame at 6 months, her hips were moderate scored about 15, so they may well do you a written opinion if this helps.This bitch went to a pet home, was spayed and lived to 14 with a bit of rheumatics in the last year of her life. 

HD is strange in how it affects dogs, some dogs can have a score of 15 and be affected some a high score like my Sheba and never be affected.

I hope your sort this out

 


X-RAYS, please help
by Teri on 29 August 2008 - 17:08
Teri

Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 03:13 pm

If I read your post correctly you said this dog was sold "AS IS" and even lowered your price on this dog.  If I understood you correctly, you have already compensated him.  The x-rays are poor at best and possibly that was intentionally done to help him out???  People do that kind of thing. :o(  The hips do not look HD to me but I am far from an expert.  I too think he is upset because she didn't take from the breeding and he is trying to use HD as his excuse to get his money so he can purchase another dog for breeding.  Possibly he needs lessions on when and how to breed dogs. :o)  I assume from your post stating the dog was sold "AS IS" that there were no clauses covering HD or any other condition in your contract requiring you to fefund his money when you sold this dog???  If that is the case I would tell him to read his contract, request his Vet repeat the x-rays for free, this time correctly.  Most important I would make yourself clear, regardless of the outcome of the x-rays, which are not an issue in this situation because the dog was sold as is without any garantee's.  It is sad but of his own doing because he is up a creek without a paddle. 

I purchased a pup from solid German working lines with absolutely no genetic issues, he ended up having severe HD.  Breeding is a gamble and unfortunately things happen even out of the best blood lines.  My contract stated the pup was of working quality and was garanteed for HD.  The breeder not only held up to her end of the contract, she went above and beyond to accomodate me in every way for my hardship, even giving me the pick of the next litter.  This situation was not just hard on me, it was hard on her because this was a baby she planned before conception and cared for until I purchased him at 3 months of age and was equally devistated by the findings and outcome.  My pup was diagnosed with HD at 6 months and had to be put to rest due to the severity of his HD.  I miss him terribly however it was the best thing for HIM.  He was already as big as my 15 month old GSD and would have been at least 95 lbs at full maturity.  This pup would never have had any quality of life and would have been horribly misserable with his physical limitations and pain even with surgery.  It was not right to put him through a life like that and allow him to continue to suffer for my bennifit.  I appreciated my breeder dealing with me honestly and fairly.  My 15 month old female GSD is from this breeder and I have a new 9 week old female GSD to replace Chip.  She has very big paws to fill.  I am very happy with the dogs I have purchased from her and the manner in which she handled this awful situation.  It is my personal belief that adults should be honest and forth coming regarding any business transactions.  There have been many discussions regarding dirty deals on this  board and I can tell you it cheapens the person who is dirty.  Eventually your true colors will show.  The only thing we take with us when we leave this world is our integreity and if we don't use our integrity during dealings with people we are sure to make a name for ourselves.  I just don't think it's a name anyone would want to own.  ;o)

From what I understand in your post, he is a grown man, who made an agreement, having full knowledge of the condition(s) of this dog and that he purchased it  "AS IS" without ANY garantees.  So it sounds like he did not purchase a dog of breeding quality and he knew it, so he shouldn't be trying to breed her in the first place without being OFA'd and/or titled making her


X-RAYS, please help
by hellsbeast02 on 29 August 2008 - 18:08
hellsbeast02

Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 06:50 am

I am not quite sure if there ever was a contract, but I do know the dog was sold "as is". I personally know the person that sold the dog (she is an honest person and wants to do the right thing but "AS IS" means just that "AS IS") and I know the breeder and let me tell you, this breeder is an outstaning person and honest breeder. All her dogs are guaranteed but she is not responsible for this dog. Her contract voided when whomever purchased her as a pup sold her, and now he wants compensation. He claims to be an experienced breeder and I don't buy that. He was trying to get a cheap breeding bitch and it back fired that is all. He could have insisted on xrays before he purchased the dog (no matter how much he paid), and he could have insisted on a full guarantee and paid extra for it.  Noone can guarantee that a female will produce, we can't know that.  If a dog is sold "as is" and you know that, you cannot come back as a buyer hollaring I want my money back or I want a replacement  dog. Bottomline, he was dumb and now want's someone else to pay for his decision.

And personally I think the xrays are bad. Terrible positioning, this vet obviously doesn't know what he is doing. Yes the pictures are good quality and clear, but the xrays need to be redone. To me they look like they will OFA Fair.

 

Debbie


X-RAYS, please help
by Uber Land on 29 August 2008 - 18:08


Uber Land

Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:33 pm

thanks everyone.  I worried and stressed about this all night.  When I was first contacted, I was really upset and felt bad about the sitaution, but after he sent me the x-rays, I no longer feel bad about it.  her hips look nothing like what he indicated.

thanks again.


X-RAYS, please help
by Brittany on 29 August 2008 - 20:08


Brittany

Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 06:20 am

I agree with what everyone here is saying about the positioning of the x-rays. I wouldn't leave the vets office until I get a good position of the hips.

If I was a vet I would be very embarrassed showing my clients these kind of x-rays.

No way would I send these off to OFA.











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