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Classified: Excellent Family Dog
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Kreative Kennels and DDR/Czech temperement (21 replies)
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Has anyone ever dealt with this kennel? I have looked at their site a few times but I don't know anything about them but they have some good looking dogs and impressive pedigrees. I ask because they are within a decent driving distance from me in California and have the bloodlines and general type of GSD that I am interested in.
I have been told that the DDR and Czech dogs tend to be naturally more 'impersonal', that they do not become as close with their handler as the other lines do and are of a more independent nature. After reading some of the history of the DDR military dogs, I can see why this may be true; those dogs were treated like machines, no different than a gun or tank. My old gelding horse came from ranchhorse bloodlines and had been born and raised a working ranch horse. It took me awhile to get to be buddies with him and even then, he was never a pet and was just as happy to be left to himself. He loved to be in the middle of the action, if he was penned where he couldn't see what was going on, he would crib constantly. I guess that's what you would call a high drive horse! He was just push button to ride, though and didn't have a mean bone in him, he could be trusted with anyone at any level. Now if those lines of GSD tend to have that personality (assuming they have had proper training/socializing) I think that would be a good thing.
Thanks in advance!
Krystin |
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I have spoken with them a couple of times as they had older puppies from a male I bought. They seemed helpful the first time I spoke with them on the phone but they didn't really follow through on what they promised me on the phone they would do.
I have 3 DDR/Czech dogs all of whom I purchased in their later years (over 4yrs old) and all bonded with me and my family and are independant but VERY family focused and protective more so than the show line and west german GSD's I previously owned and trained. I raised a litter of DDR/Czech puppies from my first DDR/Czech female and found them to be handler focused but not dependable on the handler. I have a friend who has a 90% DDR male and he is very dominate and somewhat aloof. |
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Never dealt with Kreative Kennels but wanted to comment on Czech temperament. I have a Czech/Slovak male I got when he was 5 years old. We bonded very quickly, he's affectionate and social with all family members. BUT he has an air of self confidence about him whether I'm with him or not that my other GSD's do not have, I suppose that can be called independence. He's loving and affectionate, lets me know he cares but is not NEEDY...thats what I like about him.
Not sure if it's just him or the type but wanted to share. |
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I own DDR, Czech and even Conformation Lines. I love them all. Honestly even though many people put down the showlines I have no complaints. They are just as protective as the working lines. |
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I love Ajax and wanted a pup from a litter sired by him with a west german working lines dam. But I found another dog in the meantime. Having so much Crok, he's got to be a handful. Still like him. Was surprised they hadn't found anyone to do frozen sperm as I was told.
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I have a DDR female going on nine and she is very independent but has bonded closely with family. SHe is aloof to most strangers. Being independent and confident was a big factor in being a good tracking dog as she loved to lead out and was not prone to want to hang back as some do... |
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I have czech dogs so I can only speak from what I see. My pack is more independent and as stated above that is what is needed for a good police or tracking dog IMO. They are very pack animals and love being with their pack. So I have not seen any be unsocial. Now some of my guys are very true to the standard about being "aloof" and I personally love that - some don't (to each is thier own). But as for drives over the top and could not ask for more. I personally love the Czech lines
As for the Kennel some of the dogs I love but others (structure) I can do without (JMPO).
EK |
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Cant say anything about Kreative Kennels as I never dealt with them. But born and grown up in the DDR (with GSDs) I can tell you that only a small part of the DDR GSD served as military dogs, and those dogs did not represent the temperament of the line well. True DDR dogs are very family oriented and bond to the extreme. They settle down well in the house, yet can switch to protection of their family in a heart beat. They are very good with kids and tend to protect even kids unknown to them if they feel there is a need. They can be clowns and selfentertaining, yet still watchful and aware of their surroundings.
They are excellent workingdogs and will do anything you put them up to. They are very selfconfident and think for themself. Police, sledding, SCHH, FH, herding or service/companion dog, or even babysitter. You name it, they do it. They are somewhat late to mature at around 3 years. And not necessary your dog when you want to go for high level competition, even tho I am not sure if ever someone truly tried. But they still have fire, and will do SCHH3 easily. They are happy to work for you, a simple pet on the chest is reward enough.
Currently I own a 100% DDR girl, 8 months old. Started her in SCHH, and she is doing very well. If the handler is different then the owning family, then there might be a bonding issue towards the handler as they are very loyal to their family. |
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Krystin
I own both DDR and Czech dogs. I have a 23 month old 100% DDR female. I also have a 2 year old 80% Czech 20% west german workingline female. I also live in Napa, California. You may PM me if you would like to talk about dogs.
Elkoorr's description of the DDR dog is EXACTLY what I have noticed about them.
As for the Czech dogs I have noticed that they seem to mature very fast. At least my female has. She is very handler focused but isnt always in your face wanting attention. She is aloof to strangers, but isnt shy at all. She is about 60% defense and 40 % prey orriented. She seems to have a real civil side to her. This is what I have noticed with several of the Czech dogs that I have seen.
As far as Kreative Kennels....I have talked to them a few times vis email...they seem like nice people.
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I have a czech male and he is very much bonded to me and really could care less about anybody else - not reative, not elusive, just ignores them [unless they come too near his car]
I would say we bonded very quickly and very strongly. My West German Working lines female is VERY independant yet quite social. |
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Sorry, I haven't dealt with Kreative. I do have a 2 yr. old Czech male and a couple of German Showline dogs. The Czech male is very intense, high drive, loud, snapping, very dominant. But he's a sweetheart and very affectionate. Can be very gentle and is calm under most situations. He has incredible energy which makes him difficult to kept in the house and he's dog aggressive. He has a huge tolerance for pain and is quick to alert to anything new (dogs, people, any noise). He bonded with me after 3 months of intense walks and training every day. Very smart. I don't have to say a word...just move my head or hand and he knows what I want. One of this guy is all I can handle BUT he's great. |
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Elkoor description is right on. I own 18m female with DDR bloodlines. Best dog ever. Little bit aggression towards other dogs. But she never attacks first if the dog will try to jump her she will pin them on the ground and snaps at them, or slaps them around which looks really funny. Never actually committing to a full bite, unless the dog will continue, or she gets my approval. So I wouldn't really consider it aggression is more of a dominance she likes to be in charge that’s all. When comes to kids best dog ever protects and watches them without interrupting kids play. The kids that she watches used to be afraid of dogs due to a bad experience in the past now they invite Sasza to a tea party :). Dog is very family oriented loves everyone but ready to protect his pack in a second notice. Never seen better balance dog. Be careful buy only from reputable breeder. Make sure that their dog are fully tested for temperament, hips and elbows. You won't regret DDR dog is the most intelligent dog I ever owned, or seen. Its true that it matures slowly but still its not too immature just likes attention and play time, that’s all. Early and strong socialization is very important for DDR dogs, if not you might end up with really aggressive dog as I seen in the past. From now on I intent to stick only to DDR dogs, it was the best choice I ever made, you will never see me without that dog at my side. From the beginning it was trained to be of leash Now I just carry leash only when I see that people don’t feel comfortable with her rooming freely. Never had any problems with her from a pup. Still keeps on impressing me. |
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Thank you for the replies! Thank you Elkoor, I was under the impression that the Military dogs were just about the only dogs in the DDR, thank you for the info and despcription of the lines. That sounds like the description of SV1 Horand, just what a GSD should be.
I was thinking that if Kreative Kennels was a quality oufit, it might be a good place for a "field trip". I was not very impressed with their boasting of being the biggest working line kennel in the US or the fact that they keep over 150 dogs, but I was thinking that if they owned some spectacular dogs or if they were excellent trainers that would be worth driving a day to see. And some of the dogs they have on the for sale pages I don't like the conformation of at all. I don't have internet at home and I can't do a lot of looking around so I like to just ask a question and see what the response is. Thanks, Micky D, for those links, very informational and a little of what I was afraid of. I would think that with 150 dogs, they would need to employ at least 30 handlers to each look after their own group of dogs everyday. I have yet to see a vom Kreative dog on anyone's site or anywhere outside of thier own site and to me, that's the best advertisement.
I'm not planning on getting another dog anytime soon, but I am looking into the DDR lines for my next one. Now is there a difference between the military lines and the 'regular' lines or is pretty much any of the popular or more common lines going to produce the typical DDR type, assuming that the puppy is well socilized, trained and all that? A friend of mine has a male that is half DDR and half Czech. His sire comes from Haus Cimmerian, Haus Antverpa and Jen Ager's in the front and Laager Wall, among others, at the back. And his dam is a Venusina sopka female. I love this dog's temperement: he's social, not at all aggressive towards dogs or strangers and extremely confident. He is what I would call 'aloof', that is he is friendly but not jumping all over you wanting attention. He will stay all day for pets, but is OK and just stays quiet if you don't want to mess with him. And the Slovak lines, are they from the same base as DDR and Czech?
Thanks again!
Krystin |
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They are anything but excellent trainers. Take a peek at a few of their videos. I too was interested in a few of their dogs but have since, after taking a closer look at them, been turned off. |
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Jvl "As far as Kreative Kennels....I have talked to them a few times vis email...they seem like nice people"
I'm not sure what your definition of nice is but mine does not including selling GSDs as guard dogs to live their life alone in a junkyard. From their site " Some businesses require a guard dog, but not necessarily the training that a protection or police dog would need. We have guard dogs without training for - for example - used car lots, indoor showrooms, outdoor sales areas etc. The guard dogs would have a high level of agression and natural protective behaviour which is necessery where a handler is not present."
Also this is from one of their "TOP LEVEL EXECUTIVE PROTECTION DOGS" Nadua von Lünsholz Born: February 18th 2007 " Nadua has it all. She has one of the best pedigrees in our kennel as well as the ability to be one of the best females we have. She can do her obedience, her tracking and her bitework with the best of them. She has very high energy, but at the same time is very controllable. Her pedigree is unmatched. Nadua can be a SchH-3 female, a protection dog or a police dog. She is a nice sized female with more strenght than the average dog. In her eyes you can see the self-confidence and seriousness " Now I have three problems with this. First the whole Top level executive protection labels you see on so many of these questionable sites. No definition of what that means. Secondly if you read their description they do not state she is actually trained. Quote " she has the abilitity to be" Quote "she can be a Schh3" - AHH but she's NOT which leads us to the third objection. I live in Northern Cal - never met these guys at a trial, never seen them exhibit ( plus nothing on web to suggest they every have). Strange for folks for are "striving to breed great working line german shepherds for the military, border patrol, police departments ... We are breeding dogs that exhibit excellent prey drive, courage, intelligence and also have a ton of energy." Now how would they know is my question. Also interesting that in a 2 hour radius of these guys there are more than 6 world class helpers and trainers that they choose not to take advantage of.
What amazes me is that people sucker so easily and buy from these folks AND buy at incredible inflated prices . I love how on the guard dog page the dogs are offered WITHOUT training just natural aggressiveness and lo and behold who buys one of those but a sheriff's department. ARRGH! An I'm sure they will sucker some poor soul into spending tens of thousands of dollars on Nadua above 'cause after all she is a TOP LEVEL EXECUTIVE PROTECTION DOG - NOT.
I have to confess they have some males that I would be interested in if someone else owned them. But I have to ask myself whether I'm willing to subsidize and support an operation like this - blatantly commercial, using the breed simply to make money, have not taken the time to educate themselves and using highly questionable sales tatics (see info on exec protection bitch above.) The answer to that is NO!
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No doubt they seem to have way too many dogs for their own good.........and yes the videos are broke........with that being said I actually do like the pedigrees on some of their dogs. They have so many dogs from some nice Czech and German kennels makes one wonder if the past owners even care where they end up. Just look at the sheer amounts of dogs they have labled as brood bitches, then studs, future studs, future brood bitches, green dogs, pp dogs, guard dogs, dogs for your breeding program, and ect ect.......then make your decision. |
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Wow, I hadn't seen that part on their "excecutive" level guard dogs with no training. I guess that's a cleaned up way of saying that if you want a dog that will bite someone when you tie it up to the frame of a car and don't want to pay alot (at least I hope that they don't charge alot for a dog that is just plain mean with no training!!) or explain to the pound what you want with that pit bull, then go to them? They are also dairy farmers, I hope they don't dispose of excess puppies the same way as SOME dairys dispose of excess calves! But it doesn't sound like they are worth a trip after all.
Thank you all for sharing info about your Czech and DDR dogs, they all sound really nice. I know of a couple other breeders here in the Northwest that breed those lines exclusively and sound like more responsible breeders. Like I said, I'm not looking for a puppy right now but I am interested in those lines and have been studying them.
Thanks!
Krystin |
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I just went thru the same process you are and have purchased a DDR/Czech pup which I should receive in about 3 weeks
I would not let $200 or $250 transportation cost dictate my purchase of a dog I'll have for 10 to 20 years.
GSD's need companionship and TIME with YOU, every day. How can Kreative Kennel (which I know nothing about) possible give their 150 dogs the love and attention they crave?
I suggest you visit www.ddrlegends.com which is a group of working dog experts breed for the love of the dog and not for the $$$.
good luck
Mike |
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Karly,
I agree with the above that you should go to the DDR Legends web site if you want to learn more about these dogs. Don't know them personally, but, there is a lot of good info there.
If you are looking for a trustworthy, knowledgeable kennel with DDR and Czech/Slovak dogs I can highly recommend SchraderHaus K-9. They are in Washington state and have really nice dogs. Very, very nice people also! www.schraderhausk9.com |
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Krystin,
My DDR pup is now 11 monhs old and he is doing extremely well. I bought him from vom Banach K9 in Washington. I drove up there twice to inspect the kennel and the dogs personally. I live just north of San Francisco. I also visited Schraderhaus and they are very good also. I don't want to bad mouth he ones I saw that I did not like, so I will give you my recommendaions:
In Northern California:
www.justk9s.com/males/ check out Rookie
www.mkp98.com/Leslie-V-1.html
In Washington State-worth the drive
vombanachk9.homestead.com/
www.schraderhausk9.com/
No matter where you go, always check up on the hips and elbows clearances....meaning OFFICIAL clearances. Never accept "prelim x-rays good". You want an "a" stamp or even better, OFA.
Michele and Pharaoh
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Hi there...
I just had a litter in May out of a 100% DDR male and a 3/4 Czech/1/4 DDR female. I was hoping for the structure of the DDR dogs and a nice balanced combination of the drives of the Czech/DDR dogs. The male pick of the litter is outstanding!! I am very pleased with this litter and what it produced. He is loving and will play side by side with our children but does not mind time to himself and is not needy or clingy. He is very focused and loves to play with the rag we have on a whip. Quick,quick,quick!!! He is too smart for his own good and is always trying to "figure"things out!! I love this cross. Makes a well rounded beautiful working dog.
Shannan |
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