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Classified: ERLE DEL RIANICO
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long coat gene (16 replies)
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please can someone clarify whether litter siblings carry the same gene make-up, ie if a female has proven she carries the long coat gene, does it mean her litter brother also HAS to carry the gene? be gratefull of any explanations, I understand about its recessive nature , its the sibling bit I'm not sure about. |
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The sibling may or may NOT carry the gene. It depends on what he received from each parent. Was either of the parents a long-coat? I |
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Neither of the parents were long coats & all the litter where short coated. |
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There are two possibities for the parental genotypes in this case. The most likely (assuming the litter was of normal size ie over 4) is that just one parent carried longcoat, in which case the litter brother has a 50% chance of carrying.
Less likely but still possible, is that both parents are carriers, in which case the litter brother has a 67% chance of carrying.
NB. This is discounting the influence of modifying genes which can alter the phenotype to give the impression of longcoat in a carrier. |
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If a full litterbrother was produced in the litter that was long-coat, then both parents are carriers, whether their coats are super-short or plush.
The long-coat gene is a homozygous recessive condition just like the coat color black. This means the puppy/dog has to inherit that recessive gene from BOTH parents in order to be produced with the coat/color.
This means, your puppy from the same litter has:
25% chance(1 outta 4) of NOT being long-coated nor a long-coat gene carrier
50% chance(2 outta 4) of NOT being long-coated but IS a carrier(meaning, if this normal coated dog is bred to another normal coated carrier dog, then you could see a long-coated pup now and then)
25% chance(1 outta 4) of BEING long-coated.
That's as simple as I can possibly explain it. The greatest chance via Mendelian genetics is that your pup is normal but is a carrier of the gene. Dunno how else you could find out if he/she is a carrier or not unless you bred to check for it. |
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Singe, log on to the following site and read all about longcoats in the GSD. There is now a DNA test that will tell you if your dog carries the gene recessively. As Katjo el al have already stated, both parents of a long coat must be carriers and the odds are about 25 % that your dog is not a longcoat or does not carry the gene recessively. Not all longcoats have a hair to the floor, some will pass for plushes. The length of the coat is determined by the modifiers. The modifiers tell the coat when to stop growing.
www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html |
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Good point, Blitzen-there ARE many different variations/degrees of length of a "long-coat"-too many to try to explain and describe. |
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Katjo, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the dogs we think of as plushes would test positive for being genetic long coats. |
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LOL-that's nice, eh? lol. You could be right with that.
Oh well-I think in the long run, better to produce a long-coat where the 'defect' is merely cosmetic rather than a cryptorchid or mega-E pup, or etc...it's a matter of perspective. |
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Long stock coat or not will only matter to the breeder or owner to make sure which variety class at a show he or she enters in, since long stock coats (those with an undercoat) will now be reinstated and the FCI standard is in the process of being changed. This was voted on two and a half weeks ago in Kassel at the BV (General Assembly). I thought that I mention that since it did not seem to have made its rounds here at the PDB. |
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Excellent updated info, Silbersee-thank you!
Interesting.  I'd not heard that one yet, but it's fine with me. |
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thanks silbersee thats great news |
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Silbersee, What are the issues being voted upon? Thanks. ecs |
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ECS,
the BV (General Assembly - the body in the SV who can make these changes; they are comprised of the board of directors and the delegates each region sends) has already voted to reinstate the long stock coat, not the long coat. The difference is the undercoat or lack thereof. The long stock coats will be shown and bred as a variety. Right now, the appointed commission is working on the regulations, i.e. for shows, breeding and breed surveys. Then, the FCI standard will be changed accordingly and the revised version sent to the FCI, VDH etc. I can not tell you how long that will take until it is official and finalized. It has been rumored for years and now it happened and everybody knows it (well, I guess almost everybody). The different regions in Germany have already informed their members with reports on their homepages. So, it is for sure.
A couple of other issues were voted upon but it does not really have a bearing for anybody outside of Germany, like no SV member can be a member of a dissident organization for GSDs at the same time. They are obviously referring to the RSV-2000 - Dr. Raiser's newly formed organization.
Chris |
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Chris do you know some of the thinking behind this decision? I'm just curious why they would not just restore them to their previous KKL2 status.
Why create a variety? It seems as this would fuel coat to coat breedings. Is that part of the reason - to restore the dropping registration numbers? Was it felt that coat fanciers would no longer accept 2nd class citizenship and would stick with their own created registries unless they were given variety or KKL1 status?
I have been a long time critic of the decision to disqualify the long stock coats for a variety of reason but I do have to wonder if this new decision is just going to create a worse mess. Personally I think restoring them to KKl2 status would have been sufficient and more logical and easier logistically speaking. |
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bump Chris I see you are present. This fell down to the second page so I thought you might not have seen my questions above. I think we'd all love to know some of the background thinking about this subject. |
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Sorry, Beth. No, I did not see this before.
Yes, the SV will offer the coats as a variety, so they do not compete with the "regular" ones. This is just fair, as coats are beautiful, and some of our regular stockcoat ones would not stand a chance, ha ha. There are two organizations in Germany which promote the breeding and showing of long stockcoated dogs. They hold their own events (shows, trials, breed surveys). One is the www.lsvd-net.de and the other one the www.asvd.de . Neither one has FCI or VDH member status and is therefore not recognized outside their community. For example, the AKC would not accept their registration papers.
The SV has lost a lot of their members for various reasons and might speculate that they can entice new breeders and exhibitors with that move. At the same time, the long stockcoat was voted in, they also voted to amend the SV bylaws, that will prohibit dual membership with a dissident organization. That means that SV members who hold a membership with the ASVD or LSVD or the RSV-2000 (Raiser's SV - as this new organization is called) will be expelled from the SV. And don't forget that the standard will not be officially changed until the SV sets up the showing and breeding regulations. So, this might take another year before we see these variety classes at the shows.
Frankly, I don't see a reason why the coats should be in KKL2. Once they are reestablished, they should be judged by their working ability and anatomy and not the coat length. Keep one thing in mind: We are only talking about the long stockcoat here, not the long coat. Dogs without an undercoat are still banned.
It should be a choice for everybody. Personally, I do not really want to own one anymore. For my taste, they require more maintenance. We have owned one for 12 years (he died of old age) and just recently kept one female puppy here for a couple of months. Things will always get tangled into their coat. We live in the country. So depending on weather and time of the year, there is mud, ice, briars etc matting their hair.
Chris |
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