German Shepherd dog

Is anybody else getting sick and tired of the German handlers at conformation shows. This past weekend at the WDA event held in Kentucky was another prime example of how rude and un-cooperative they are. The organizers of the show had a monumental task of keeping this show moving along in an orderly fashion. There were 180 or so entries and the German handlers seemed to want to make a game of trying to make it as difficult as possible to keep things organized. These people are being paid to come over here and show dogs. The least they could do is be cooperative and it would be nice if they would show a little class in representing their country as invited guests of ours. One of these ASSHOLES even decided to beat the crap out of his wife at the hotel he was staying in.  Can you imagine what happens to her back at home if he is stupid enough to pull this crap in a foreign country?

I won't even go in to the politics of these dog shows, but, it is funny that the dogs handled by German handlers at the N.A.S.S. always seem to be the dogs at the top of the heap. How interesting? German judges give better placement to dogs handled by Germans. What a great way to make these shows in to a self-perpetuating business for our friends from Germany.

I think that it is high time to look at banning paid handlers at these shows. (ARE YOU LISTENING MR. SPREITLER?)

This should not be about banning someone because of nationality.

I would bet I know exactly who supposedly  beat up his wife. He is infamous in his own country and this country for his boorish and often drunken behavior. The fault lies, in part, with those who hire someone like him. There are, of course, many fine foreign handlers who comport themselves in a sportsmanlike and honorable manner at all times. They represent their dogs and clients, the breed, the sport, and their country well. There are others who go off, including Americans, to a foreign country and act like morons. I lived in Austria years ago for a long time  and believe me, I saw plenty of Americans behaving boorishly.I was so embarrassed by how so many Americans acted that I tried very hard to be inconspicuous.

So my suggestion is that one not consider banning someone simply because they are from this country or that, but indeed because they behave badly. This is also true of the crap that goes on in some trials. Further, if people were not so into placing high in a show to the extent that they would hire someone who acts like this, even if he is a competent handler, then the problem would be solved. For the record, I have seen Americans act in an unsportsmanlike manner here too. So it is not about what country one is from, it is about fundamental character and good manners. One prominent handler from Germany is nothing but a drunk. That should and does reflect badly on HIM, but certainly should NOT be generalized to others, period. To do so is grossly unfair and biased. Personally, I would not hire him if it cost me a high place. It is about bad manners and all of us must insist on standards of behavior too or it degenerates into the stuff you allege. Apparently a handler was incredibly rude as well recently at the USA Sieger Show.

It is about individuals, not groups....

I agree that the German handlers/breeders are very rude.....we have used many Top VA males in our breeding program and drove many miles....the rudest breeder we have run into was from Germany......just took our 1,0000 had an easy tie and sent us on our way.....no offer of a cold drink on this hot 90 degree day!  After driving over twelve hours.....will never deal with these folks again......wouldn't matter what Top dog they had standing at Stud!   Won't even go into how rude they were to the puppy owners at a show.........what happened to Southern hospitality!  Go back to Germany!

Hummm this thread seems rather bigoted complaining about all this. May I remind you the very land your discussing was stolen by Europeans, native tounges and cultures forgotten with a forced new language of English, Spanish and who knows what else is on the platter for delights. So actually you having the problem as you stated, and me as a Teton Sioux ... seems your advocating something you shouldn't. Spatters of ignorance like this is what ruined this country long before the appreciation of the Founders in the Constitution. Maybe you should go back to where you come from, before yall are banned.  LMAO   My bad.

People are rude all over the world. Some people are rude period. Others not. Would I have offered you a cold drink? Sure. Would others, probably. Would all people, black, white, Asian, American, German or Inuit? Perhaps not. Again, it is just as rude to assume that all people of one nationality are this, that or the other, as to reflect on how rude an INDIVIDUAL was.

Very well put! Some people are A-Holes; doesn't matter what country they are from. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE GERMAN HANDLERS THEN DO NOT HIRE THEM. Most are wonderful and very helpful. If you don't like breeding to a German owned dog then don't! I assure you that there are Breeders and Handlers from the USA that are just as much of a Jack Ass.

It wasn't his dog that he handled.  He was paid to handle someone elses so there probably wasn't a dog in the room.  I am just guessing at this.

 OGBS,

I do not bring Germans here specifically to handle my dogs as I rarely am able to take them to a Sieger Show. If I had a dog who was of high quality, you can bet that I would find the best handler I could, and yes, people do not generally handle dogs for others for nothing. Proper and competent handling is important. I, for one, however, would not hire the individual in question if there was not a single other handler available. People hire people like this because they think they are getting a leg up on not only the show placement, but in breeding, in making contacts etc. Most people I know see through all that.

In the one SS I did participate in, I paid a friend who is an American to handle my dog for me. Why? Because I am partially disabled and I cannot run. I am also too heavy, and I am too old. Banning paid handlers or whatever is a silly idea. People have the right to participate or not and as long as they do so in a fair manner, so what? If someone wants to show their own dog and can do it, I say go for it. At our own local shows we sponsor, we even have children show our dogs.

There may be politics or not. There may be idiots who are drunks and people know exactly who you/I are likely referring to. I have met this person and would never want him at one of my events again. He was brought to a show I participated in by someone else. He was a rude and ill behaved person with an alcohol problem. I cannot fix that, but I choose to stay away from people like him.

The dogs who are shown well, whether one likes it or not, often place the best, assuming all other things are equal and the dog is a nice dog structurally. Presentation is everything, not only in show, but in life and business.

Is there some history and politics behind the placements in shows? Probably there is. But I cannot fix this and neither can you and neither will anything be made better by "banning" anyone for any show because they are paid or are German or whatever.

For what it is worth, I pay my money for helpers. We have no club helper and it is costing a small club a fortune to bring in a helper once or twice a month. And I mean fortune. If you bother to read posts I have written in the past, you will find I am very critical of the fact that the organizations are not doing more for the little guy, small clubs etc., specifically in the way of training more helpers and helping handlers become more competent trainers. I have also sponsored helpers in the past and brought the best helpers in to teach them. But to learn to be a good helper takes a lot of time and study and frankly, most people are not interested. The sport is dying and will continue to do so unless some dramatic changes come about. One of those changes is that more helpers need to be trained. However, that can only be accomplished IF people come forward that want to learn helper work, or want to learn to be better handlers. I have been involved in the sport now for almost 10 years and I still learn every day how to be a better handler and teacher. We bring excellent helpers and we always learn from them, and once in a while, I suspect they learn something from us.

So despite what you wrote, I do not think we are far apart.

Let's face it, pro handlers are part of the "sport" of showing dogs, SV or AKC. Anyone who doesn't think the handler's face is often as important as the dog is not facing reality. I've seen it for almost 40 years at AKC shows and it was very blatant at the one NASS I attended. AKC frowns on it, but they only give lip service; as far as I know, the SV turns a blind eye. Pro handlers will never be banned no matter how much some might wish they were. That would mean a decline in entry fees.

You who show SV style are totally screwed -  you do not have nearly as many shows per year as do those who show AKC style and  your selection of judges is normally limited to a handful of the same judges who come from Europe to judge here year after year.  I've never quite understood why clubs keep bringing over the same judges.  It has to cut down on the entries; wouldn't most rather show to a judge who hasn't judged in the past year ot two than to a judge who has? Duh......With the price of gas, it might behoove show hosting clubs to rethink the way they select their judges and give owners th eopportunity to enter under someone different now and then?

It is a system that is set up to fail the domestic owner-handler . It rewards those with enough money to bring a team from Germany to handle for them at US shows under German judges who are often the same guys they call friends and with whom they shared a beer the night before.   Are all SV judges dishonest? Probably not but try to one of them juding at more than one show in  your general area. . Too bad there are not more people in the US licensed to judge at SV shows. Why is that?

Showing dogs is political, always will be, so you may as well understand it up front. If you can't afford to pay a big name handler, then learn to show  your own dog or teach a family member or friend how to do it. Handling SV style is not all that difficult and anyone who is physically  fit enough to run around the ring can do it. Enjoy your dog and showing it for what it is - a game that you are most likely never going to win regardless of how good your dog is. So what, it's not the end of the world, it's a dog show. You can still get your own dog breed surveyed and titled and there are many other activites you can engage in with you dog. You don't need to pay a pro to do everything you know. The real GSD people know which dogs are the best; they don't need a judge to point it out to them. They just won't ever breed to your male even if he's the best there ever was unless he's a VA dog. But that's their loss...........