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Classified: 2007 German Sieger Show
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Ferro,Troll,Mink,Orry,Pike offspring. (25 replies)
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I have always wondered as a future breeder why i always see the same dogs in the bloodlines of champions. Dogs like.....Orry von Haus Antverpa Harro aus der Lechrainstadt Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich Xento von der Maineiche
Greif vom Herkulesblick Timmy von der bösen Nachbarschaft Xato von der bösen Nachbarschaft Quasy von der bösen Nachbarschaft Mink vom Haus Wittfeld Jago von der Lindenhalle Sagus vom Busecker Schloß
and so many other great dogs!!!!!! What i want to know is the traits that there offspring had that made them so special. All of these dogs contributed some great things to the breed like superior hips, genetic hard bite, and bone density. If anyone has information on any great dogs legacy traits(if you will) then please respond because i would like to know why i want to breed a scertain lineage not just breed it because it worked in the past. Thank you for your work and effort to the breed and the sport.
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PS: I know some of the dogs i listed are offspring of another dog on that list. they are just examples :) |
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you have partly answered your own question the reason people breed these dogs lines cause they worked in the past and present and future.also these lines have and are producing consistently the type of drives that are needed to do sport and police work and othere reason is people's preference,these are mostly west german working lines but there are also east german lines that are well known as well have produced consistently for work and hips and health.hope this helps in some way.thanx. |
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The biggest trait...they produce traits like their own and their progeny produces good dogs behind them. Don't forget they were famouse dogs and were bred to, many, many, many, times. |
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These dogs are very much proven thanks to there progony but i want to know what exact traits each dog was known for bringing out in his progony. I know i cant possibly find out every dogs exact trait that came out in its progony but if i can get some of the real famouse dogs like fero and mink and.... then i can use the offspring to try and improve a future breeding program. I definetly agree that what has worked in the past and present will probably work in the future but i want to isolate those traits so that i can realy harness them in breeding. |
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Three words: hard, Hard, HARD!
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One problem I believe we have in this country is we are so darn large. A great stud dog in California probably will not be used in the midwest very often. In Germany, Belgium and Czech you can get their in a matter of hours. If you look at the number of breedings with the GREAT ONES you will find huge numbers, like over 200 breedings and so on. You also look and see if 200 breedings at 8 pups you have 1600 progeny to come up with good dogs. I am not saying they are lucky or numbers are on their side. The hard thing about having your own breeding program is it takes time to find the combinations that produce consistantly. One solid trait along with most if not all the dogs is their hardness and willingness to work. |
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Thanks for the info. i can definetly see what your saying about the distance creating sort damper on breeding good studs in the US unless you have enough money to ship dogs all over or even just time to drive cross country(which normal people dont have those two things). Thanks for the help |
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Busecker schloss....bone depth, hard driven, big heads big necks and looks ,,,temperaments of love and devotion and loyal never have nerve issues, health is impecable...
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I wouldn't be bold enough to name what dogs bred what traits or a % of offspring carried that on because I have never laid eyes on any of the above dogs while they were alive. However by video and seeing dogs chalk full of these lines, you can make a somewhat educated connection. I could give opinions all day about particular dogs and lines and what they produce. There will always be someone else who got a different result and opinion.
My dog has a few lines that are awesome and I'm not sure which line would be my favorite. Though one of my favorite dogs of all time was Orry vom haus Antverpa. Here is my boys ped... http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/7/487512.html
As you can see, Orry 3 times but is the Troll, Natz, Fado more impressive or Aly, Troll, Fero? I went for the stack my plate approach, with that much on it, something is bound to taste good. My dog is nice, super grips and as stable as they come, but he could use more drive I guess.
4 - 5............................................. in V Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft
5 - 5............................................. in SG Verwin vom Blitsaerd
4 - 5,4........................................... in G Orry von Haus Antverpa
5 - 5............................................. in Steffi v. Tiekerhook
My little girl http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/7/535088.html way more intense and her bite is full too, a little nerve to her, she is more suspicious, quicker to strike, she seems stable as well but still young. She seems to bring what the other dog I have lacks, speed, drive and a little more social twards me. I'm thinking this is the Olex, Nick, Half, out of Timmy on top. Was Timmy more serious than Troll or did he produce better?
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Thank you Yellow Rose of Texas that is exactly what im looking for to put in my data base. |
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Timmy produced sharper dogs, more edge to them. Not as good of pigment, often. |
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First of all 4PACK both your dogs have a wonderful line and i want to congratulate you for getting your hands on that. As far as what you mention about Timmy vs. Troll I have always wondered which one is better myself. My female Phoenix vom younghaus is line bred to Half vom Ruhbachtal which is a Timmy son and she has great drive and she is very hard and does well in protection. My male Talon vom younghaus is line bred to Timmy and he has even more drive and is very strong in protection and has alot of focus and is just the all around dog. That makes me feel like Timmy could be the better half the only thing is Troll has many offspring that have gone on to be very prominent in the breed so its so hard to tell. Both your dogs have close pedigrees so as far as your female being more edgy and higher drive it could have been something as little as the dog you got from the litter. Its so hard to tell. Thanks for your knowledge. You have two wonderful lines!!! |
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I have seen video of Max v.Tiekerhook and that dog is impressive! Anyone know any good progony of his? |
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Just mine ;-) Hutch van Tiekerhook is about 10 months old now, and coming along fabulously. Best dog for me, ever.
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darylehret
He is as bold looking as his father. very nice boy! How is his agression to the helper,and his focus in obedience? Is he very ball driven or bite driven? Thanks for the info. |
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Hutch is very very bite driven and ball driven (of course). Very firm and full bites, good outs, focused heeling, quick downs. He's very fast and maneuverable, he will be one of those dogs whom the helper would really have a tough time trying to intentionally make him miss his target. He's not all that interested in other people socially, but with his strong prey drive, he'll promptly engage strangers in prey exercises with the tug, without even considering it. We have NOT pushed him to aggression yet, maybe in another month. His obedience is very willing and attentive to me (but really responsive to only me). He really tries to figure out exactly what I want from him, and still clearly hears me when he's "loaded in drive". He always is ready and wants to do something, and "turns it on high" in training, but also easily relaxes within the home. |
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I also have an 8 month old Max son, Gildo v. Houserhaus ,and have similar experience to darylehret regarding the drives and temperment. Even at 8 months he is showing strong defense and social aggression. I am working protection in prey drive for at least the next four months. He is 5-5 Gildo Korelbach.
I also have a Fero son - probably one of the last ones left. He had much lower drive as a pup compared with Gildo. |
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I have a Pike grand-daughter. www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/484717.html
She has laser like focus in OB, is *very* willing and handler focused. Awesome tracking and protection rocks. Nothing but full mouth grips, strong barking and very, very fast...
If I had any complaint at all (and I don't) , she is to confident. Nothing phases her and I'd like to see a tiny bit of edge in her, but confidence is good too.
She is from a repeat breeding on the 2 parents and all pups from both litters are in SchH homes and showing the same focus and drive.
-Calvin
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I have a Pike grandson.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/543607.html
He is a lean 87 lbs, with a large head and a strong grip. He is very intense in his work, whether it's tracking obedience or protection. He has a ton of ball/bite drive. At the same time he is clear headed and always eager to work. Take this as you will, he is my first schutzhund dog. I am extremely pleased with him though.
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we had a litter linebread on Pike, very nice. we have also done some outcross's using most of the dogs you have mentioned.
to me the dogs you have mentioned are (or will soon be) considered foundation dogs.
also, one must look to some of the "newer" studs out there for improving lines,,, i say newer only because we are just now seeing how well they produce, like the Troll v. Haus Milinda, Eros son of Tom, Olex son of Nick, Asko, and Aly. im guessing it will only be a few years from now, that these will be the dogs everyone will want to be breeding sons of or linebreeding on, least we forget the motherlines which in my opionin can have a greater impact.
john |
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And if Pike, troll, nick, fero, and orry have been the foundation dogs of the past, which dogs coul be now considered the modern day foundation dogs of the working german shepherds? |
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Tiger Dragon
I agree with your comment that fero,nick,orry,and pike are foundation dogs of the past so with that said.....
WHO ARE THE STUDS OF THE FUTURE? |
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The best producers out of these dogs, will be the "new gen" of stud dog stardome. When you get consistant dogs for 4-5 generations you really have something there to stick with. Who those dogs will end up being, depends on how many breedings, who they are bred to and a good percent of progeny turning out nice. We won't know that for a few more years yet. |
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