The Pedigree Database: German Shepherd dog

I have a dog that is fed normally all raw but he needs more weight on him now. I know you should not feed raw and kibble together at the same time, but what if I gave him a bit of kibble in the morning and then his big meal of raw at night?

Air-

Why don't you make him some Satin Balls?

I do not know what those are

What is in the kibble that wil put weight on?

Why cannot it be provided by a raw diet?

Why do you think you cannot feed raw and commercial together?

Fat is what puts on weight.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/mixing-fresh-food-with-kibble/?PHPSESSID=c5582dfdb50bead07aa7d29ed1e17b2c

http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm

You will no doubt have extra ingrediants after you make a batch. You can sprinkle or pour some on top of kibble or his raw rations. They really do put the weight on, does wonders for the coat too.

I have mixed kibble with raw for years. The morning meal consists of a small amount of kibble, Oma's Pride raw meats, a raw egg, The Honest Kitchen Embark (and/or other sources of raw fruits/veggies). The dog that needs the most "groceries" gets 2-3 times (roughly 2 cups) as the other dogs and more meat.

The evening meal is entirely raw meaty bones.

The best kibble (has the greatest caloric density) I've found is the grain-free Innova EVO Red Meat (small bites--provides greater surface area to enhance digestion). Don't let people frighten you about the amount of protein (>42%) in the EVO. It is the biological value of the protein that is crucial--plus a correct calcium to phosphorus ratio. EVO also has a fat content of >22%.

IMO, satin balls are more designed for finicky eaters.

You want your dog to gain weight, then increase the amount of food and add a little more fat.

Yep, a normal dog can pack on a few pounds with the  EVO red  meat--mine certainly did!   I also feed raw and kibble together and have for years.   I have found no negative result. If anything, depending on the form of raw, there seems to be less 'wastage" than even with raw alone.

I have mixed kibble with RAW too and haven't had any problems (so far, have to watch Murphy). My sons dog eats more dog food than RAW, she was on Orijen all winter and was getting a little heavy. I told him to back off on how much of it he was feeding her and she has slimmed back down. Also on one of these food threads someone else mentioned their dog gaining on Orijen. So I guess it helps put on weight too. And yes, I think adding more fat would help put on weight, in the wild it is burned for energy vs carbs.

I have upped his food, of course, but it is getting $$$ for me so I thought maybe if it wouldnt be bad for him, I could supplement a bit with some kibble.

Why not just feed more?

giblaut: Why not just feed more?

The reason I just don't feed more is because I would have to feed an enormous volume of raw that lacks the nutrient density of kibble. This would also be cost prohibitive.  Already, I spend ~$100/month/dog for a diet that is primarily raw! Because one dog does not tolerate chicken as well as red meats, wild fowl, and fish, I don't feed any of the dogs chicken (which tends to be the least expensive of meats in the food chain).

OTH, increasing the percentage of fat in a diet would tend to proportionately decrease the percentage of dietary nutients in the diet. I want my dogs to put on muscle weight--not fat weight.

Anyhow, the OP asked if one can successfully up the caloric intake in a dog's diet by adding a small amount of kibble to a raw diet. The answer is yes--and with no harm.

 or you can just feed a protein source with more calories and you don't have to feed him an enormous volume of raw food

Yes I sometimes add pasta or some rice to his food, as well as eggs and yogurt.

uvw: or you can just feed a protein source with more calories

This would entail feeding a protein with a higher fat content. However, the GSD is often not particularly tolerant of fatty foods.

Pasta and rice have little nutrional value--just dead calories (few vitamins, minerals, or enzymes) in the form of carbohydrates for which the dog has not evolved to require. Eggs and yogurt are great foods but provide few calories.

I think what we would need to ask is how much fat is in the RAW diet. Fat is not a bad thing when feeding dogs. Animal fat gives dogs energy just like carbs give people energy. A dog that has energy is able to work longer/harder and providing more muscle mass. To little fat in the diet and dogs will use protein for energy, therefore loose muscle mass.Fat is also essential for fat soluable vitamins A, D, E, K. Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid an essential nutrient for healthy skin and coats. Animal fats also supply essential fatty acids, mostly omega 6, and fish oils or flax oils provide omega 3. So if a diet fed is deficient in fat, like very lean burger, a dog would be loosing out on nutrients as well as it could be the cause its being to lean.  To much fat is also not good and can cause diabetes, pancreatis, of course obesity etc. One other plus I have read is a diet high in proteins and fat but low in carbohydrates is helpful in warding off cancer cells or growth.   This is a good article : http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/category/fats/ 

It is no different for dogs, than it is for humans. If your dog is burning more calories than he is consuming, he will lose weight. Just like humans, dogs of the same breed have different metabolisms. With GSD's, there are ectos, endos, and mesos. All with different calorie needs.

Potassium is critical for muscle contraction and fluid balance. The banana, is the poster child for potassium, but for Potency, the Molasses in Satin Balls humiliates the banana. 2Tbsp of Molasses, just 1oz has 410mg of Potassium. To gain weight calorie intake must be upped. I cant think of any better way or calorie loaded food than Satin Balls.

examples below from a quick search online.  not sure how accurate the numbers are, kinda late to cross reference, but gives you an idea.  try some lamb or buffalo.  #'s are based on 1lb of meat.  if you're worried about price, there is a raw food company that sells 10 lb tubes starting at $13.

ground lamb 1275

ground beef (90% lean) 800

chicken 500

turkey 480

venison 713

ground bison 1013

rabbit 617

duck 559

quail 609

elk 503

goat 494

sardines 727

1 large egg 74

Please don't feed satin balls, yogurt, molasses or any other material that is not meat, bone or organ.  Look in a dog's mouth - how many flat teeth do you see?  Answer - None.  Look at the jaw - it ONLY moves up and down.  These two facts scream carnivore.  The sharp teeth and the hinged jaw do not have the means to process vegetables, grains, fruits, etc. enough so the body can utilize the nutrients.  They do not chew as a part of digestion.  They rip or tear off meat and swallow it.  Bones they crush as few times as possbile and swallow it as whole as possible.

The recommended feeding amount is 2% to 3% of ideal adult body weight.  This is simply a recommendation.  Either feed more than 3% or feed a food that contains more fat.  Fat is desired in dogs.  It's their energy.  It's their conditioner for their coat.

I feed four dogs raw for less than $3/day (two GSD, one Golden and a pit).  For those that say it is too expensive, please get creative and find deals for your dogs.  Look for sales at grocery stores, go to butchers for scraps, talk to hunters, use freecycle and craigslist, talk to game processors, talk to neighbors and family about getting old/freezer burnt meat or find a local coop.  There are more options than just buying what you can find at the grocery store.  It takes some work, but it's worth it.

The problem with feeding kibble and raw is simply this:  Kibble digests in 8 - 10 hours where raw digests in 6 - 8 hours.  Feeding kibble BEFORE raw WILL create an undesired backup.

LOL...  move less, eat more...     could this be a scam?     something from the tube, thought it was funny.

I don't think anyone mentioned deworming.