|
|
|
|
|
Classified: peggy
|
question for breeders (23 replies)
|
|
I took a deposit on a breeding planed. female was due in heat last month she has not come in yet. I spook to the buyer 3 weeks ago and we talked about how females some times are late and dont go right on Schedule. My last e-mail was 4 weeks ago as he stats. Our phone call 3 weeks ago he was happy and fine and all was in order.
Today i got a e-mail saying
Your last contact, listed below, is a day or two shy of a month old and still no report of a breeding.
I cannot deal with housebreaking a puppy any later in the fall season and since I do not want to be without a dog for a full year I picked up a pup from a friend of a long-time friend of mine in Illinois.
I am very sorry about this situation--dog not breeding, etc.
I would still like to visit your scutzhund Sunday afternoon.
Please return my deposit to:
I have contract filled out and signs by him that refunds are NON refunable. I dont know what to do because this was the only e-mail i have gottten from him and i was keeping updated by sending him e-mails. But after an e-mail he would call me on the phone to talk because he said he did not like to use e-mail.
What would you do?
|
|
|
|
|
Man thats hard to read... Why would you care what I would do or think, its your contract.
I take it your the breeder and the buyer bought another dog and now wants the refund of the deposit???
And your contract states no refunds?
You decide. |
|
|
|
|
It is not your fault he went out and bought another dog from someone else...that is why we tell people your deposit is non refundable...because of just that reason....leaves you high and dry...when people want a pup and are sure they want a pup enough to make a deposit..that is a space you reserve for them...When you make a reservation on a trip, or a vacation place or a convention or a reservation on a place for you at a hotel...most of them do not return all of that deposit...you only get a portion of it returned ...it involves taking that spot out of order for that person ,book work,,special response like you did , keeping them updated and all that is time and effort that is a part of that deposit....I would kindly remind him to read his contract,,,and his deposit is non refundable...and if he doesnt want his pup, then his deposit is null and void..
If he doesnt pic pup up by a certain date, which your contract should say in it...then the pup goes public for sale.
Plain and simple..he knew when he made the deposit the pups were not in the basket...I take a lot of deposits from referred customers who wait for a litter, They know if they back out...deposit is non refundable.
|
|
|
|
|
I agree rose, its a no brainer. Still someone will bitch that they were treated unfairly.. PEOPLE!
Night rose. |
|
|
|
|
i would refund the deposit, but then that's just me. i would also make a mental note never to do business with him again. some people are just not worth putting up with for a piddly 300 (est) deposit. he could do a lot of damage to your reputation. i guess you will have to decide for yourself if it is worth it or not.
pjp |
|
|
|
|
 , Ive been dealing with the public for 49 years and you have to be either black or white in decisions,,,no place for gray matter.....
|
|
|
|
|
I'm with ziegenfarm; I'd return the deposit and actually probably not feel bad about it at all because that person obviously didn't deserve to have one of my pups in the first place. The excuse he gave you sounds pretty lame, most likely a bunch of BS and he found something else either "better" or "cheaper" or both and used that lame excuse as a reason to weasle out of losing his deposit. Considering the deposit was on a 'planned litter" and it wasn't actually on the ground (not saying it should matter taking into account he read and signed your Non refundable contract) BUT you still have plenty of time to find that pup a great family to go to.
I think at this point it's your call. Legally you can keep his money and say "good luck with that pup and thanks for the $300 or whatever deposit". Morally you may want to say "this litter was worth waiting for and I'm sorry you didn't feel that it was and decided to buy something else, I hope it works out for you, here's your deposit back as I would not want my pup to go to anyone who felt they were "forced" to take him/her for fear of losing a couple hundred dollars, my dogs are worth more than that to me. Your call and either way you have a right to approach the situation taking both choices into account.
A friend of mine who's been breeding dogs (not GSD's) told me some breeders treat their litters as a "business" and treat buyers as business clients, other's have a hard time being a "strictly business" type when it comes to their dogs, puppies; they get emotional and personal about things. I myself even being a business woman have a hard time treating things like puppies as a "business". I would rather feel very good about where the pup was sold to and going to live out it's life rather than put pressure on someone to follow through with a "commitment" only to find out later they turned around and sold the dog just to recoup a deposit they would have lost had they renigged on the deal. Just my .02! |
|
|
|
|
I think the deposit should go back to him. If the deposit was given with the strict idea that the bitch would have been bred a month ago, mother nature has forced your hand. If we promise something like specifically being able to take a pup home in 4 months, and suddenly that changes to 5 months we have voided the terms of the contract and now money is due back. |
|
|
|
|
I never take deposits before the litter is confirmed by ultra sound. I would give the deposit back |
|
|
|
|
I don't take deposits until puppies are born. There are no definites in breeding. I'm surprised you took one without the dog even being bred, that alone was asking for trouble.
You have a right to keep to the deposit if your contract states it as non-refundable, but the nice thing to do would be give it back. |
|
|
|
|
I personally wouldn't take a deposit till the pups are on the ground or at least after pregnancy is confirmed, precisely for this reason...seasons are not always predictable and breedings do not always take and desired sex of pups are not always available.
If taking a deposit I personally would verbally reinforce the non refundable part primarily because it would make me feel better about telling them to go scratch if they tried to get it back.
This person SHOULD have at least checked with you to see if they could get the deposit back BEFORE getting another pup. At that point I might have given back, even if "non-refundable" was in my contract.
But since they didn't ask and are now expecting it back, I dunno...it's rude. |
|
|
|
|
I would not put a deposit on a litter that is not on the ground yet or better yet, not even conceived! Foolish! If that keeps me from getting a certain breeding then I will find another one. There are too many good breeders out there and too many great breedingcombos.
And I do not agree with the tendency of breeders to accept deposits at that point. Again, I consider that foolish. Partially for the reason of the OP dilemma.
Nothing wrong with starting a waitinglist and building a relationship with the client in the meantime. Also allows the breeder to back out if something does not seem right about a client without any kind of legal implications.
|
|
|
|
|
I think it's your problem the female didn't come into heat. NOT his. You should give him his money back. He might spread the word that you were good to him and he would be willing to give you another customer.
It's not his fault, he's entitled to his deposit back. |
|
|
|
|
On my last litter, I had taken deposits before they were born and ended up refunding some because I didn't have what they had placed their deposits on (not enough males to go around, in that case). I only produce a litter every couple of years so it would not have been fair to ask them to wait for another breeding.
This time around, I took 'reservations' but not deposits...soooo much easier! Once the pups were on the ground, those on the list were notified and, if they still wanted something that I had available, they sent their deposits then. Keeping them up-to-date on the mating results, ultrasound/xray reading, etc. kept them interested in the litter while we waited for the whelping.
Too bad, OP, for the hassle this situation has caused you. I would give the guy his money back if it were me, just to avoid the stress. |
|
|
|
|
I agree with Arrakis. I would give him his money back.
While your contract states that the "deposit is non-reundable", is the deposit REALLY worth the risk of him bad-mouthing you all over the internet? I would think NOT.
|
|
|
|
|
Also wanted to add, there is a BIG differnece in returning a deposit on a litter that isn't even CONCIEVED yet, and one where the puppies are already several weeks old. It isn't like you are out any time or work. You still have PLENTY of time to sell the potential pup to someone else. |
|
|
|
|
Yeh I'd give it back, like I said I wouldn't have taken one in the first place. Plus as others have pointed out a couple hundred dollars isnt' worth the bad mouthing.
and also what RacingQH said too. |
|
|
|
|
My response is usually two fold on these issues:
1) If the dog becomes unavailable through no fault of the buyer, then give them their deposit back.....If they just "decide" they don't want the dog, then no they can't have the deposit back.
2) Sometimes, if they don't take the dog for a legit reason(IE, suddenly jobless, homeless, death in family, etc...) I tell them: When I sell that dog, you will get your deposit back.
I do the same thing if someone "returns" a dog. Only then, I charge them a board bill, and all medical(which will be deducted from the purchase price of the dog) |
|
|
|
|
Weberhaus,
Hm. Overall, these people are right.
While yes, you took the $ without your girl bred; not exactly what I'd do, but ok-you did it. Your contract says nonrefundable deposit.
Technically, you legally do NOT owe this person back their money if they signed some sort of contract with you when the deposit was paid that says 'non-refundable'. If there's NOT something mutually signed, then I would proceed with caution if you're banking on what your website policy says-websites can be updated and changed to say whatever by the webmaster, so that may or may not stand up in a legal situation.
On the OTHER hand, this person can do this to you for the situation:
1. Smear your name/kennel on the internet on posts like this
2. File small claims against you to get their $ back because they didn't buy a pup from you after all, which will go not only on public record as you being a defendant sued, but also on your credit report-irregardless of who wins.
3. Write letter(s) of complaint to the AKC, USA, or wherever they think necessary to do damage to your reputation, depending on how much trouble they like to stir.
Ultimately, giving the $ back, even tho you say it's non-refundable, would be the cheaper way out in the long run for you. If you've got a good rep you've worked hard to keep good and clean, then it's not worth sacrificing for a few hundred bucks. Like already said, it's not like you can't line up buyers for pups when they DO finally get concieved & produced. This person you've dealt with isn't the ideal buyer and maybe you should be glad you're NOT selling one of your progeny to them. After all, who pays a deposit for a pup and then doesn't wait for it? If the research is done and the bloodlines is spectacular, you get in on the list for a higher pick and WAIT for it-not fret about whether or not the weather will be pleasant enough for housebreaking by the time you get the puppy. JMO. |
|
|
|
|
Here's a question I wondered about that has never been asked....what happens if you take a deposit for a pup and you the owner of the litter determines you don't want to sell the pup to the buyer who placed a deposit? Let's say for instance you find out something like they were acussed of neglect on a previous dog, abuse, kept their dogs chained and left outside in poor conditions....something like that. You decide to give the deposit back to them and say sorry I'm not comfortable selling the pup to you or whatever you wanna say; can the potential buyer turn around and sue you or have some sort of recourse that you breeched the agreement? |
|
|
|
|
I would refund the deposit
I never take money from someone if they do not recieve a pup from me.
(I consider it bad karma)....
Sure, I take deposits, only after the litter is on the ground, but if for some
strange reason, or any reason, they change their minds, (Which humans tend to do)
Here's your deposit back.
I only want the deposit from someone so as to put a name to the phone call or e-mail,
it gives me an address to research, and find out where the pup is headed, and if I don't like
what I see, then they will be getting their deposit back.
So far, so good!!! |
|
|
|
|
Agar, my opinion is this: when I produce a litter, they are MINE and it's my responsibility to see that they are properly homed. I can do with them as I please, whether it be KEEP them, sell them, or give them away. It is my right as their breeder/producer. I don't have to sell anything to anyone, and just like a buyer, I can change my mind on a planned sale. After all, isn't that what this post is originally about-a buyer changing their mind and going elsewhere and wanting their deposit back?
If the negative 'buyer' gets their deposit sent back to them, then why do we have to provide them a detailed reason? As long as you can't be pegged for something like discrimination due to something like race or gender, I don't see a problem with returning someone's deposit and telling them politely there's been a change and you are not selling them a dog/pup (nothing says you have to go into a ton of detail WHY). If they wanna know why, you're not obligated to stay in contact with them once their money is returned-send the letter priority mail with delivery confirmation to be sure they got it and the returned payment. Or tell the problematic buyer, when they come to pick a pup, that you're 'keeping' the one(s) they pick and have their deposit there to refund to them at this time. You have the right to change your mind later and decide to sell those same pups-even if it's 5 minutes later, doncha?
If you can PROVE the person has a bad history with mistreatment of dogs anyone would be stupid TO sell them another pup/dog to potentially do the same with, and the law should respect you refusing to sell such a character one of your progeny. And a person like that would be an idiot to try to sue you for looking after the well-being of your own pups. Let such people to go buy a stuffed toy dog, not a real one. |
|
|
|
|
katjo74- That works for me!
|
|
|
|
|
Glad you approve-I try to keep as much 'crap' from happening as possible, and walk away. It's the safest it seems, and trust your gut. If your gut bothers you about someone, then heed it-the gut is not wrong. lol. |
|
|
You need to be a registered user to post messages
Login
-
Register
Classified: Puppies For Sale!
|
|
|
|
|
Start Page
Search Website
Login
Messagelist
Post Reply