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Classified: Famous Producer Dunco Va-Pe Puppies
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A Tribute to Gameness. A Tribute to "EIGHT BELLES" (47 replies)
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Be it in Man, Dog, or Horse, there is nothing on earth that can compare with the quality of Gameness. I have just witnessed one of the greatest exhibitions of Gameness ever shown.
A filly hasn't run in the Kentucky Derby for 9yrs. Only 3 have ever won the Derby in it's entire history. The Great filly "EIGHT BELLES" just finished 2nd to the favorite powerhouse "BIG BROWN".
What hurts so much, is the deep game filly, finished the race on broken legs. She was immediately put down.
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/05/03/filly-eight-belles-breaks-both-front-legs-euthanized-after-kent/
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Yes I seen it so so sad, I did like the winner Big Brown but I thought they should have said more about the filly. And then crown the winner, |
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How said,
That poor girl must have had alot of heart.......
RIP Eight Belles. |
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She actually broke down after the race as they were galloping out. Took a bad step and broke one and then threw all her weight on the other and broke it as well. She was a massive filly, the biggest animal in the race. Also had a ton of bone and was very fit. Very sad. She ran the race of her life.
Big Brown ran a great race, staying on teh outside out fo trouble the entire trip. He has had to overcome really bad feet which is why he has had only four lifetime starts. |
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I watched her break her Maiden @ Delaware Park. First in Five.
One of her un-named siblings (yearling filly) was for sale not too long ago in Philly.
RIP |
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I actually saw something during the race as they came down the stretch and she was in 2nd place behind Big Brown.. there was 1 split second where she turned her head to her right while running full speed and then everything seemed to change.. I think that was the beginning,.. just breaks my heart .. hate it. What a champion |
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It makes you wonder about the breeding of horse's as many question dog breeding. Weak bones and joints? I didn't see the fall only the latenite news. You know she ran her with all her heart to be second. Really sad. |
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We don't let our dogs take part in high impact sports until their joints are fully formed, yet they race horses at 2 and 3 years of age. As long as they keep doing that, these things are going to happen.
The growth plates on a horse's skeleton don't fully close until 4 years of age. But, of course, it costs too much money to keep a horse, and not race it until that age.  |
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I agree Sunsilver,
I also feel that the nature of the money's involved and the intensity of this sport of kings, the nature of the competition is blame for a lot of things. I love my dogs but a horse can take your breath away.
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| What’s gotten all of a sudden into you, Brent!
You’re here, you’re there, and with nothing but marvelous posts!
And I love a horse with heart.
Cheers.
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This is why, I hate to see fillies running against the studs. She would have been better served, running against others of her own gender, and then finishing her career rearing get, rather than 3 years and out. When a horse breaks down, it isn't ever pretty, but to run fillies, who in all fairness aren't built to rock and roll with the studs.....when good judgement isn't exercised, a great sporting event is compromised.
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I totally agree with you Abhay. I sat and bawled when she broke down and my first thought was about the bastards that made her run against those colts. She was a big filly but she didn't have the bone or the heart girth of most of the colts running. She did have heart though.
The owners and trainer of of Eight Belles had already won the Oaks (Derby for fillies) the day before but the prestige is in the Kentucky Derby and that's all they're after. |
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Running with the boys had nothing to do with it. Watch the replay. She wasn't bumped or touched at all. And she most certainly had both more bone and heart girth than some of the colts. How can you say stuff that simply isn't true? |
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I am not into horses, but even I can recognize beauty and heart when I see it in a horse. It is something of regal quality that cannot be disguised. Many of us remember the long-ago performances of Secretariat and Carbon Copy. These horses were physically no greater than their best competitors, yet they had the innate desire to finish first-or not at all. No amount of training can place that into an animal's psyche. I agree it is very sad when such a thing happens to a filly like Eight Belles.
Regards,
Bob-O |
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she could not have run at all, let alone hold her strong second place finish, with two fractured legs. This terrible injury happened as she was finishing (I saw a slight hesitation in her gait just at the finish) or soon after as she was pulling up. Knowing horses quite well, I'd agree with the vet and those who said she broke one and then fractured the other after the race. Terrible horrible thing to happen to any horse. She had guts, heart and courage to run second in a race of big strong colts, only a small handful of fillies run at all let alone give the colts a run for their money as she did. I'll remember her as a great filly.
molly |
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I'm glad I didn't watch the race. It was Ruffian all over again. She even LOOKED like Ruffian, same size, same colour.
My enthusiasm for horse racing died the day Ruffian had her match race with Foolish Pleasure. Her heart was so great, she ran for several hundred feet on a shattered leg, refusing her jockey's efforts to pull her up.  |
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As in any Performance animal, Blood Tells. These horses are not of normal horseflesh. I call them Gamebred Horses. "EIGHT BELLES" did not have to be bumped or touched to feel the massive strain and stress placed upon her when she was entered in the Derby.
Ask any Jock, these horses know when they lose. It affects them mentally and they take it hard. Bob-O, gave a great definition of Gameness, " the innate desire to finish first-or not at all",,,,in reality, EIGHT BELLES, would rather die than lose. No living thing other than "EIGHT BELLES" knows exactly when she began to break down. I believe she broke down at the end the race but not completely until she began to halt. At 17 hands, "EIGHT BELLES" was a large filly, but her heart was bigger than her body. The fact that she was a large filly might prove what Sunsilver said, to be true. Just like in dogs, sometimes the larger animals take a little longer to fully mature.
"EIGHTBELLES" was willing to boldly fulfill any incessant desire, the magnetism of which is so intense that it overtakes every fiber of her existence. There was neither an obstacle substantial enough nor a distraction powerful enough to justify a cessation of her journey. The only legitimate impediment is death itself. An animal's persistence must not subside until their deed is complete or until their final breath has exited their physical body. Then and only then are they entitled to the designation "DEAD GAME".
RIP "EIGHT BELLES" You were truly one of the rare breed.
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Bob-O, you might be interested to know, when they did the autopsy on Secretariat, they found his heart was much larger than a normal horse's. That's how he managed to do what he did. He was indeed a superior physical specimen.
I watched the replay of the Derby. Eight Belles turned her head out, because her JOCKEY moved her over, to prevent bumping some other horses, which probably would have resulted in them being disqualified. She continued to run strongly after that, with no signs of lameness that I could see. It looked like she just plain 'ran out of gas' at the very end of the race. There was no bobble or hesitation in her stride that indicated lameness at that point. |
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=kQU_BEiNRVI
I agree this is a massive tragegy. She was a magnificent filly.
Another hose broke down this weekend at an undercard race to the Kentucky Oaks. Chelokee has been given a 50-50 chance of survival after he broke a front leg. Chelokee is trained by Michael Matz, the man who also trained Barbaro.
These horses are being pushed too far too young. Such a shame.
There is video of Eight Belles breaking down on You Tube. Just terrible.
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All the emotion aside a horse is a running animal and age should not be that much of a factor under ordinary circumstance's, its the fact that these horse's are bred in a vary narrow range for one specific goal and defects occur because of it. We never even rode our horse's till two. They may have been worked and what we called green broke but no real weight was placed on the horse because they need time to mature and grow. They did not go through the intense training and work as these Thurough breds have to go through. And I spent time working as a kid at a race track in Indiana and knew many owners and several stable hands and there was always talk of the drugs to enhance the performance.
Its the intense competition and extreme moneys involved that drive the sport. Broken bones has been common place a lot in the last ten years or so and I believe it goes back to the breeding. I am not really a race fan so I couldn't quote bloodlines but it makes sense to me. We raised Quarter horse's and Tennessee Walkers, and a couple of mixed breed pleasure horse's, my mare was of mixed breed, small but full of heart. I was always amazed, proud of what she would do for me. A horse is not smart, they will let a man ride them into the ground and thats where they touch my heart. They have personalities, and show love, and have an innocence that we should respect. I think some horse's have a certain nobility that words cant describe and can take your breath away when not being ridden.
I'll stop now, I didn't realize how much I miss my horse's.
I'll scan some pictures sometime.
Me. |
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Horses are very fragile creatures. Yes, the stress on the still-closing joints of racehorses at this level is a big risk, many don't stay sound enough to see their 4th year even without catestophic injuries such as this one. Just "wear and tear" on the young bones and joints causes lameness and problems that will retire the horses from racing very quickly. But injuries such as what happened with this filly are not common - at the same time they are not "surprising" - all it takes is one slight hole in the ground, one uneven piece of dirt or one wrong step made, and a bone or joint can be shattered. I had an off-the-track TB racehorse who retired from racing at 7 years old, raced in the Belmont Stakes, was a pretty good money-earner before he became a claimer (every race he won he was claimed by a different owner) - never injured, always sound, went on to be a jumper, dressage/eventing, hunter-pace, fox hunter (well we tried), and all-around good horse. Terrible hooves, that I can say is genetic and common in TB racehorses - but his bones and body were sound. Another horse I knew shattered his leg while standing in his stall and kicking at a fly, glancing kick off the stall wall and that was it - leg broken in many places. Stuff like that can happen with horses, they are very fragile but the major injuries seem to be "oopses", wrong-step or kick or step in a hole kind of thing, not usually "the leg just broke". Barbaro too, probably took a bad step, when at a full run this can cause catastrophic injury if the step is "just right".
molly |
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Eichenluft, so often the problem is not just that one bad step, but the ones following it, in which the horse is too game to quit, thus compounding the injury.
Ruffian resisted her jockey's efforts to stop her, resulting in her broken ankle becoming completely dislocated. She ran for quite some distance on the exposed end of her cannon bone. They nearly lost her in surgery, due to the massive blood loss caused by the injury. |
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I read an article and the jockey said he stood up right after the wire and she started to gallop funny. I was really rooting for he filly and was watching her the whole race.
I don't know a hell of a lot about horses, but as I was watching the race, I too saw her head pull up. I saw something in her gait about halfway down the stretch run. Not a mis-step, it just looked to me like she was not extending fully in her stride.
I believe whatever happened started mid-way down the stretch and that horse finished the race. It was one of the most courageous things I have ever seen an animal do. I almost cried after that race.
The next time I ever think about quitting, I am going to try and remember this horse.
Don't ever quit.
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I bet this horse had both fronts "tapped" 7 days out. Notice where the wrap was. |
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What does that mean, BabyEagle? |
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Eichenluft, so often the problem is not just that one bad step, but the ones following it, in which the horse is too game to quit, thus compounding the injury.
Yes, but remember they are also traveling at 50+ mph, so they can't "just stop", they must keep going at least until they can be pulled up. Yes, these horses are born to run, they are racing and often have "gameness" as someone suggested - they do want to win. Pain normally doesn't stop them. However they would not be running in front, nor running sound, with any broken bones. This injury happened after the race, or as she finished, or as she pulled up (after the race) - that doesn't mean she was not predisposed to the injury, they do a lot to these racehorses before racing them - especially in a big race such as this, it was not her first time out nor her first time running to win. And she was only 3 years old - the age most "non race" horses are just being started in work. There are not many ex-race horses who raced well, that are sound and without evidence of injuries, working sound into their later years, that is for sure. The ones that are, are the ones that should be bred - unfortunately the ones who are bred are the ones who win,even if they are not sound after their 3 year old year.
molly |
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Yes, I agree the injury happened later. What I saw in the stretch was the jockey turning her to the right a bit to get her away from some other horses, so she wouldn't be disqualified by bumping them. At the finish line, she was still galloping smoothly, but just seemed to have run out of gas. My post above is referring to an entirely different race, one I will never forget:
Ruffian stuck her nose in front, the opening quarter was run in 22 1/5. At this time Ruffian started pulling away from Foolish Pleasure, first a head, then a neck, then by half a length. Suddenly, the jockeys heard a snapping sound. Then Foolish Pleasure was in front by a length, two, three.... the announcer called out with disbelief, "Ruffian has broken down!" but the great filly kept running. She ground her leg into the track but there was no stopping her. By the time she was pulled up, her hoof dangled uselessly and it was all anyone could do to get her off the track.
http://www.tbgreats.com/ruffian/bio.html
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"Tapped" is slang for certain injections due to injury. Calcification deposit on demand so to speak by injection after "Hot" fluid is removed. In this case I would say bilateral ankle fractures resulting in compound fractures during the Race. Too common. ROT IN HADES to the Trainer and Owner !!
Anyone Watching the Rolex ? |
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Horses run with a gait that lands all the impact of their weight and all the force of their momentum on one leg, about as big around as a ladies wrist. At about 40 mph, that's a massive amount of force on a very delicate, organic structure. Add just a little torque & you've got a recipe for a disasterous injury. We've seen it too often lately. I don't know if the cause is sloppy track maintenance, or horses bred to turn on blistering speeds without the bone to support them. A horse can be big & strong looking, and in actuality, simply be carrying too much structure to be safe at those speeds. It's a terrible tragedy, because they are bred to have that strong desire, and the truely great ones will run on despite pain, or insurmountable injury. I remember Ruffian, Barbaro, & now Eight Belles; one more name to add to the long list of equine sacrifices to human sport. I miss my horses, too. jackie harris |
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I think you may have pegged it exactly right, Jackie. Both Ruffian and Eight Belles were big fillies, over 17 hands tall. Too much height for those fragile bones. Ruffian had such a big girth they said she was fat (not true!). |
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Sunsilver, thank you for that bit of trivia, as it is most interesting and does explain part of what made his superior performance level. Again, I am not a horse fan, but even watching Secretariat on film it was obvious that a special fire burned in his eyes. He would not let himself be beaten by anyone.
Jackie, your explanation makes good sense in regards to the ratio of body mass/muscular strength/impact force vs. bone & joint size/mass.
Regards,
Bob-O |
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From the Internet:
Ronald Duncan, "The Horse," 1954:
Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride,
Friendship without envy,
Or beauty without vanity?
Here, where grace is served with muscle
And strength by gentleness confined
He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity.
There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent.
There is nothing so quick, nothing more patient.
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Yep ... now I bet the real backside Vet for Belles speaks up instead of the State Vet who was interviewed... LOL this is gonna get good. All in all, when the truth comes out ... Kentucky will be looking for a new State Vet who approved the horse in the Paddock. |
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Damn she was a beautiful horse. She had a ton of heart and it was so sad to hear about this when I got home last night. Usually I watch the KD, Preakness and the Belmont Stakes but I had a stupid meeting to attend Sat afternoon, out of town. Sure puts a damper on the festivities. Barbaro still sits fresh in my minde. I don't think I will watch a race again with the wild abandon I did as a kid. Now I'll be praying with a clenched gut, everyone comes out unscathed, regardless of the winner. |
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BabyEagle.........can't think of a time that I missed either the Derby or Rolex! :) or...............WEG jumping for that matter! ;)
Terrible about Eight Belles...she gave a hell of a run, and I must agree with everyone who said it happened later rather than early on in the race. |
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I have not seen the race, nor the horse (except for the pic above). I just don't care for horse racing, although my father was big on it when he was alive. It was his passion.
I do wonder though, about animals and the desire to win. Do horses and dogs really desire to win? Or, are they just doing what they are trained to do and some are just lucky enough to have a little more gas in the engine, or more natural ability, or better training, or it was just their day? After all, someone has to win.
I am unsure to a positive conclusion, at this point, but I do think that an animal having the "desire" to win any competition is possibly a trait that does not exist, except in our minds. Dog racing, horse racing, pigeon racing, or any animal sport, are probably just the animal doing what Pavlov said they will do, or at best, doing what they think pleases their master. But trying to out do another animal, for the sheer competitive desire to win, like humans exhibit? I doubt it.
Again, one of them will win, one will get second, etc. Is it because of desire on their part? Kinda shaky projection from us to them. I wonder if there is any way to ascertain if two wild horses have EVER decided to see which one could run the fastest from one point to another, without human intervention and "direction"? I would think not.
I do feel so very bad for this filly. Looking at the above posted pic, which I assume is her, she is beautiful. The look in her eye is one of pain and not understanding what is going on. When a human athlete inures their self, they pretty much understand what has occurred. I do not believe that animals understand when they are incapacitated from injury, and go into shock from not understanding why they can not do things they have always been able to do.
It sure would be nice to be able to converse with animals. I bet one fifth of the ideas we have in our heads about them, are wrong.
As a side note about this filly. Hillary Clinton had said prior to the race that people should put their money on the "filly" to win. An obvious reference to herself. Now that the "filly" came in second and also had to be put down, I wonder if Hillary said to Bill "Oh crap"? |
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I don't believe it is so much the horse wanting to "win", they don't think in those terms IMO. But a racehorse is bred to run, and the ones with heart, courage and "gameness" want to be in front. In training they will "breeze" with another horse - doesn't have to be a racehorse (I did some of this with my Quarter Horse "pony" that I worked on the racetrack) - the "partner in training" will run in the quarter of the racehorse, the exercise riders will "play the racehorse" by pulling back, allowing the partner to draw slightly ahead, and the racehorse will fight not to lose his lead. It is training, but also it is "in the heart" of a racehorse. Different IMO than quarter horse races where they are bred to sprint - the fastest one wins. Thorougbreds are not sprinters, they are stayers - they are bred to run fast and far. Strength, heart and stamina, all in one package. The horses that don't want to be in front (and win) are not the great racehorses.
I mentioned my ex-racehorse once - he won many races and was raced until he was 7 or 8. Then he was competitive as a jumper, dressage and eventing horse, and I tried foxhunting with him. He was always VERY competitive. Never lazy, always tried his best. If he knocked a rail down he jumped 2' higher the next time. Made him a difficult horse to ride, definately not a beginner or "easy" horse. Trail rides were great when he was alone, but with other horses it was a constant jig, nervous trot - unless he was in front. Then, nice and calm. Foxhunting didn't work because unless you are the hunt master, you can't be in front. So my horse would constantly fret and try to overtake everyone else in the field, never allowed to be in front, never quiet unless he was. So foxhunting was exhausting for horse and rider (me) and wasn't attempted more than a couple of times. He would have been great as a master's horse (always in front) but not in the field - he was a racehorse through and through, he always wanted to be in front. Any horse coming "from behind" was a challenge to him. Passing him was not acceptable no matter the years of training to be "just a horse" after racing.
Even in the pasture (he was around 12 years old in this picture) he was always at least "a head" in front of his buddies when running. In this picture you can also see how the full weight of the horse lands at speed on one fairly small and not so flexible joint) You may also compare the differences in conformation between these two horses - the bay is the "racing bred" Thoroughbred, much more streamlined, longer and lighter bones compared to the shorter-coupled boxier arab/quarter horse cross (the grey)
molly |
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I rode and competed in jumping with a TB/Quarter Horse mare. She, too, had the desire to be in front, though she had never seen a racetrack. If another horse tried to pass her, she'd kick it in the ribs! Made for a really fun ride...
She was an awesome little jumper. One day, I turned too wide bringing her into a combination of 3 fences. Now, if you hit the first fence wrong, you are in big trouble, because the hores's stride is going to be off for all three of them. I was sure we were going to have a rail down on the 'bounce' (two fences set so close together that the horse has to land and take of on the same stride.) She jumped her heart out, and cleared all 3 without touching a rail. But, aftewards, I noticed she was trembling a bit. My instructor was well aware of what had happened, and he told me to get off and cool her out. The next day, she was a little bit lame.
Now, that's gameness. Most good jumpers have the desire to jump, and will jump fences 'at liberty' in the arena, or even out in the pasture. This particular horse once cleared a 4-foot rail that had been set up to block off the gate to the pasture, because she wanted to be out there running with the other horses! |
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Anybody who knows horses knows they fight to be in the lead, racehorse or not! In animals it's fight or flight. Horses are prey animals and obviously are flight animals. Being fast in horses has as much advantage as a dog with allot of fight. Like dogs that are always testing the pecking order, so are horses.
Molly your grey looks to have short upright pasturns. The bay would be the much smoother ride.
I dunno about wild horses but dometic horses in a pasture run and play daily. It seems they do race eachother and egg eachother on. Even my dogs race eachother for the win, horses and dogs will even race a car. No the prize isn't a trophy for the animals but they obvioulsy get something out of a win and they surely know when they lose, they pout too. |
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Depends on the breed of horse - my Quarter Horse and Warmblood are perfectly content NOT being in the lead. They are fine following - makes them much nicer to ride than the competitive "must be first" racehorse LOL. Foxhunters are often "heavy hunters" - draft horse X TB crosses - they are also less than interested in being "first". They will follow and keep up, have plenty of long-running stamina, they can jump great - but their favorite gait is "stop and take a break".
molly |
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I watched four hours of coverage for the Derby. AT home I always "place my bets" so to speak. I had Big Brown to win and EIght Belles to place. I was however secretly rooting that she would come in front of those big boys. I was crushed over this. I was so upset over Barbaro and now this. There was also George Washington at the Breeder's Cup lat year as well. So many factors go into these injuries. There is something so noble and majestic in a horse and I do love them. From what I hear there three horses that died at the Rolex yesterday so horse sports did not have a good weekend. |
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Molly you must be blessed with laid back horses. I have pullers no matter the breed or mix, QH, Appaloosa, Paint, Arab/Appy, it didn't matter. My paint Jake was short and he invented the shorty shuffle as I called it or trot/walk to keep ahead of the longer legged horses. He had pink lips and a real soft mouth but that all went out the window in the face of competition. I ended up moving him out of a snaffle real quick, except for areana work. He was kinda high strung though, one of those horses that didn't sit still and fidgetted until he was dead tired and that could take hours. Ah young horses, makes me miss the old nags I have had in the past. Even my nags wanted out front though, but at least they would stand still for the mount.
Horses....not sure if I miss em or not! With the price of feed right now, I know I don't miss that part. |
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Eight Belles was truly an amazing filly and I for one will sorely miss her. She was one young horse I was looking forward to watching her grow up and then seeing her colts and fillies in the future. Sadly, it just wasnt to be for her. She ran the race of her life and in the end, the race took it. In my mind she will always be one of the greats though. My standardbred mare was also 17 hands at 2 years of age. Thats alot of height, alot of weigh and alot of speed on those small bones. |
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That was such a waste of such a game filly why oh why do they break them in so early and race them so early they are only babies ,and not mature till 4or 5yrs.RIP eight belles |
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Deffinately a sad, sad, moment in history..... I seen a news story reporting that this filly was bred out of a father AND grandfather with joint problems. Makes you wonder about these breeders too.... Why breed if you know there is a history of problems????? |
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