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Classified: EURO JOE BITE SUIT - IMPORTED FROM BELGIUM
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Your thoughts on German commands (25 replies)
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I have never trained in schutzhund before but have a young pup I hope to do some work with. I intend to train using English commands which although perfectly acceptable seems from my limited knowledge to be an option not taken by many despite the fact most of us are not German. I realise it can be a novelty or maybe there are other reasons but dog training is difficult enough without doing it in a language that is not our own. I wouldn't speak Irish to an Irish Wolfhound or Belgian to a Belgian Shepherd so why German to a German Shepherd ?. Please don't jump all over me for this I know many prefer to use German commands which I have no issue with as it is a personal choice I just don't follow the reasoning behind the popularity of it and why so many feel that when they start in Schutzhund they have to Google German commands to keep in with the rest of the club members. All thoughts welcome.
John. |
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The people who I know that use German commands have dogs that have been imported from German and therefore its easier to all the dogs on one system rather than switch back to English for some dogs and German for others.
Another benefit I have found for using alternative commands as many others cant mess with your dog when you are trying to tell them something. Also when getting our dogs to "speak" I always use something different as it is not something I want others doing. |
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Thx never thought about someone else giving commands to your dog I always assumed it was just a follow the crowd reason for using another language. |
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I think the words are generally shorter, I would rather say "Revier" than something like, "Blind search" or "Find." IMO, they are usually shorter.
Another reason I use them is because they are my dog's "Formal Commands". Whenever I use German, they know they have to do it immediately, because it's training time. While just sitting around in the house, I can tell my dogs to just "Be quiet", and "Go lay down." Just simpler in my opinion.
-Emily. |
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you wouldn't speak Belgian to a Belgian shepherd because the speak Flemish and French in Belgium not Belgian :p |
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If your dog will obey commands given by a total stranger, you've probably got a golden retriever, not a GSD!
Just my opinion...
I think those using the German commands do it more for the sake of tradition, or because they want people to think they have a high-priced German import...  |
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Hi russgroves
There always has to be one smart axx to all replys on this. Do they speak English in America or is it American?I dont think that was what chkm8 was getting at.Beepy & My gsdRebel have given very valid reasons to your question.There is also another ansewer I would give.There are those pathetic people in the show scene that think if they speak German to their dogs in the ring that foreign Judges might think that their exhibit is a German Dog & it might give them an advantage when the exhibit is placed
Regards
Ally |
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Ally - I hadnt thought of that one - but then I dont show enough for that to be a consideration! |
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Ja doch! You can train your dog with words from any language-use what you feel is appropriate. I guess the only guidance I can offer is that the dog should be trained to "come" or "stay" using words that people normally use. This will help the veterinary staff who have to deal with the dog.
Language choice aside, the command words of choice (a) should never be more than two (2) syllables, (b) have a unique sound, and (c) should not be words used in everyday speech in the household. It is for this reason one should never use the word(s) "Bad!" or "Bad dog!" to correct the behaviour of a dog. A preferable word in this case is "Pfui!" as it is not one the dog will hear often unless it is directed at him. An intelligent dog can learn several different words for the same command.
But, if the dog is used for Schutzhund sport, then it would be appropriate to train the dog with the words used on the field. I think that stands to reason, as the dog may have more than one (1) handler in his career. If there is nothing else, at least there is consistency.
Regards, and good luck,
Bob-O |
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Another reason to use a second language is to use one off-field and in the house, and use a second one on the field and in training. However, if one butchers the languages one uses, as so many do, it is probably just better to stick with English. There is no requirement for you to use anything but the native language commands. |
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My dogs actually know both. Most of their "formal" commands are in German. And their "house" commands are in English. One example is that I won't use Platz in the house, If I'm looking to have them chill in the house, I'll just tell them to go lay down.
I personally like the of german commands. But that's probably mostly from using them for such a long time. However, I don't use sitz, only because of the way I was saying it, I was making it sound way too much like platz. I enunciate (sp?) the "z" too much. For the blind search I also switched to a voran vs. a revier (sp?) (revier, was sounding a bit too much like hier, when additional blinds were added) For the send away, I use an English command of "go" mainly because they were taught a "go" command in herding and it transferred very easily. |
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I use German commands on the field and then English commands around the house. Platz mean LAY DOWN RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE! Lay down means go somehwere else, and laydown (but if they just leave and not lay down, i dont care).
Its a lot easier, for me anyways, for the dogs to know both.
Jessica Gainer |
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I agree there GSDbrisko! I was taught that platz should mean to the dog, the world is coming down on my head! LOL! |
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I'm gonna train my next dog using French commands because they have more sylables on average which is good for emphasis. |
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It's funny in herding I was taught to stretch the commands out. Where in Schutzhund they'll a lot of times tell me to shorten up the commands. I think now, after all of these years, I'm finally getting it straight! |
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I use a very similar method as Jessica does.... My dogs are in the house and other people in the house may tell the dog to do something and not care if it is slow, or maybe happens eventually or if the dog releases tiself, etc. So, for my OB I use words that will bring the world crashing down on my husbands head if he uses them.
You may find that just the way YOU say a specific word is enough to make the dog only obey you saying it. I don't say two syllables on the "hier" command. It is short, hard, and fast. It is somehting to think aobut when you are training and how you speak. Don't say your words any differently than usual when it really matters. The dog is listening and looking at you and is much more aware of what you are doing than you are.... At least that is what I have learned with myself and my dogs.
Darcy |
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Different strokes, I guess. As a matter of fact, I always turn "Heir" into a 2 sylable word because that's the way I was taught.! |
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I use German commands for formal training. However, I say "out" (instead of "aus") and "sit" (instead of "sitz") because the English commands can be said quickly and in a more "clipped" manner which results in a faster response to the commands.
There are too damned many German commands with "s" and "z" sounds to confuse the dog. I hate it in protection when a handler says "aus" and stretches the command into "aaaaaow-sssszzz". Geez, it's no wonder that the poor dog munches on the sleeve and is slow to out.
Actually, after watching me handle a dog in my first championship schutzhund events, one of the top competitors made this suggestion to me.
For the blind search, I also say "revier" instead of "voran", where I may easily say "voraus"--without thinking. |
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Well especially since "voraus" is a big no-no now too. |
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Pronunciation:
German is a more cut language spoken more in the throat and back of the mouth. As such it gives it a more serious tone that dogs seem to respond quickly to. English words are generally spoken at the front of the palate, and as such lack the inherent gutteral quality that German commands do.
I find that anything which allows you to say the command quick and seriously works. German, English... If you can bark out lines like a French Foreign Legion drill sargent go with that.
I used to live near Canada, learned a lot of "harsh" Quebeqois french from the truck-drivers; so I like to expand my dogs' vocab to French as well. I like the way it sounds; especially at the Canada shows *grin*
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The German commands in SchH are tradition.
If you do fencing or ballet you use French terms. If you study music, you use Italian terms. If you're a lawyer, you use Latin terms. Sure there are English words, but doesn't it sound ever so much classier to say you're doing something pro bono rather than admitting you didn't get paid for a job? |
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sueincc: Well especially since "voraus" is a big no-no now too.
Really? That's news to me. What the heck else do you say on the send away?
Are you perhaps thinking of the German word "packihn" used of the courage test (also, a term no longer in favor). |
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Lets just say that if you tell a dog bought up in Belgium to Sit or speak to it in the english words the Dog will ignore you total, and that is any breed of Dog over here
If a Dog ,learns words said in a language it will not do the commands from someone else telling it in another Language
leastways not there and then
I did this with several Dogs when i was over in Belgium during the 80's and not one Dog responded to me at all
But if i said the same words in the Dutch Language it did as i requested
Steve |
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"Fass" is the politically incorrect word in Germany.
Chris |
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It matters not what language you use to train any dog in any discipline or if you use a mixture of words from various languages; what DOES matter is that you and the dog understand each other, what anyone else thinks is totally irrelevant. |
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There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with using the command "voraus" unless you cannot keep it straight from "voran". The only word you will find trouble with is to command the dog to bite.
I agree with Langhaar......use whatever you like as long as you are consistent and they are not everyday words. IF you intend your dog to ever be worked by someone else, it helps to be consistent with the accepted language. Others have a point, as do I, in that if something ever happens to you or the dog is lost, a dog knowing only a foreign language is often assumed to be untrained. In a rescue or shelter situation, that can work to the disadvantage of the dog. |
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Classified: 2007 second male after the show
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