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Classified: 7-CAC,CACIB,BOB,ZVV-1,ZPO-1,IPO-1.
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Predicting adult size (10 replies)
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Do you have any ways a predicting the adult size of a pup other then looking at the parents? Looking at an 8 week old puppy. |
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When the pup is 16 weeks old, you can make a half decent guestimate of it's adult size and weight. At 8 weeks, not possible in my experience. |
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blitzen is right on. 16 weeks/4 months. they say double the size at 4 months and that's close to adult size. that has also been accurate in my experience.
pjp |
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Multiply 8 week weight by 4.9 for a male and 4.2 for a female. Or use the rule of thumb "5 x 8 week weight minus a few lbs. for a male, 4 x 8 wk weight plus a few for a female."
Double 4 month (17+ week) weight for a male and 15 week weight for a female.
These estimates are +/- 5-10 lbs, depending upon condition of pup and adult, unless the pup is very thin or undernourished (cheap food) or very fat (could also be cheap food!) Tiny underfed pups can grow more, IF you give them great food from 8 weeks to 4 months. Studies show that after 4 months there is no recovery from poor nutrition.
Also keep in mind that breeders want the pups thin because they believe the wive's tale that skinny dogs have better hips (research shows virtually no correlation). Vets are also victim to some tales of their own, and thier own bias, which is that a thin (female) dog is much easier to spay. So feed more than either breeders or vets say for your dogs sake.
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There is actually a lot of research data on this. Everyone here is right that at 15-17 1/2 weeks (lower end female, upper end male) the pup is half his or her final weight.
But 8 week weight is also predictive, but not as accurate, especially useful if the breeder has been feeding generous, healthy portions.
A very big pup is 21pounds. (Over 100 pounds if male.)
A very small pup is 13 pounds. (Under 55 pounds if female.)
Anything out of that range is trouble. Below and you have a bad breeder, or someone who is breeding for the malinois type; above and the lines are Marmadukes and will have trouble jumping for very long, and trouble completing anything like an AD.
A breeder who doesn't want you to weigh the pups may be okay, if what s/he is thinking is that you are focused on the wrong thing - size. But if you have shown you know what matters, and just want to check weight for health and sense of purpose (work, etc.) then the breeder should be happy to have you weigh the pups.
One breeder did not want me to weigh, and it turned out to be a problem. Another was fine with it, and her dogs are uniformly healthy and sound. (Thanks, Shelley!) |
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It is totally wrong to estimate adult size by looking at an 8 week old puppy. A lot of factors play a role: Litter size ( in large litters, individuals are smaller but will catch up by 10 to 12 weeks), genetics, eating habits etc.
My very first female produced scrawny looking puppies which turned out to be on the size limit as young adults. One of my current females has these huge puppies. They look (and weigh) like some 6 to 8 week old puppies when they are actually 4 weeks. But they would not weigh more or be bigger than the offspring of my first female.
Chris |
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What about the wives' tails about puppy paw size corelating to adult size. Also ear size. |
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You can definitely predict good bone that way, but not size (height). A puppy with "proportionate" legs will be a finer boned dog.
Ears: If they are big, they will most likely be on the larger side as an adult. I personally prefer smaller size ears, but that is increasingly hard to find.
Individual dogs grow differently, just like people do. Some shoot up early, some grow evenly. The best indicator is to look at older offspring from the mother.
Chris |
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what about the dad? Or does the mother predict size better? Or are you talking about growth patterns? |
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Watson, the dad usually has lots and lots of offspring. If they are all big or all small, yes you are right about looking at dad. But most males produce varying sizes of offspring, so it is more logical to look at the mother. I am talking about growth patterns and sizes. Example: On of my females tends to produce normal size daughters but a bit larger sons. This is seen consistently in her litters, regardless of males and I have bred her to completely different males: Hill vom Farbenspiel, Orbit von Tronje, Teejay von Wilhendorf.
Chris |
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