German Shepherd dog

I'm wondering what criteria this claim is based on? Number of dogs? Volume of sales? Or size of the actual kennels and land?  ( I am told Kreative Kennels is situated on 5 acres of land.)  kreativekennels.com/home.htm

They claim to average 150 dogs on the premises.  I bet that's what they are basing the claim on.  Working Dogs "R" Us

Brittany

Most of those are Czech titles.  In other languages they use different words and letters.  Things like the BH, FH, PPD, etc. don't trasnsfer directly into the same letters.  Do a little research. 

The only thing I found interesting is the fact that they just got into Shepherds 6 yrs ago when one was given to them as a present.  They are now the largest after six years of intense research.

I can't wrap my mind around the 150 dogs on the premises.  How many kennel workers would you need to give that many GSDs appropriate care? 

I guess it would be possible to learn all you would need to know in order to import, train and breed such a huge undertaking.  Personally, I don't know enough and I'm not a slow learner, maybe if you concentrated on nothing but working line GSDs you could do it?  Or  I guess if you have a lot of money you can hire all the right people to do the job for you?

Great marketing can do wonders!  If you "say" you sell high priced dogs, and "say" you have lots of dogs, maybe you will appeal to those who think you have something that you really don't.

 I wanted to go out and look at a male they had, and my very good friend told me I would be very upset if I went out there, and saw the conditions of the dogs.

 I normally don't post to negatives on this list, but this kennel from what I have heard, just has a great marketing team!

Brittany, you might find this link helpful   

www.oldfarmkennels.com/Titletranslations.html

Brittany,

I have many on my site,but not as much of the Czech as this one

http://www.nwk9.com/pedigree_czech.htm

Mine is Zahnweg.com

Thats a lot of dogs,   and new construction.     Lots of money.......   Ya got me, maybe they are the biggest, if not it looks like they are trying real hard.

I really like Qunato jipo me, but for readily avalible dogs I'd go with eurosport just ebacuse they have been around longer and have a better rep.

> I researched on how to figure out the female species(human).  For some strange reason the computer kept freezing up causing me to finally give up and become totally frustrated.??.

>  Eagerly looking forward to your next session as long as it does not involve the female species. As stated above my computer somehow never seems function properly when attempting to research this subject.

I guess they don't want to leave any prospective buyers out of the equation so they say their pups will be able to do it all.  They are most likely faster than a locomotive.  They can probably leap tall buildings in a single bound too.

Ditto, Drew! Why would anyone want to be recognized as the largest working dog kennel in the US?

It's all about marketing to the gullible masses. Non doggy buyers will be impressed by that brag while dog savy buyers will wonder why the heck they would say something like that on the net. I doubt that anyone here wold even consider purchasing a dog from this kennel. Am I right? When you really think about it, it's a very stupid thing to say since that sort of advertising attracks the AR extremists like PETA.

Watch the "UP-TO-DATE" videos of Quanto Jipo-Me. Who are the trainers these people are working with? Are they working him on a live ring of a choke collar? I do not see them wearing any type of protective pants either. 150 dogs? Insane. How could they all be getting the quality care they need? Who needs that many dogs?

Triodegirl,

In the other link you provided there is a picture of a male on their front page with this claim:

"Here is Phantom, a beautiful Karats Yoker son out of Kessy vom Trobachtal who is a full sister to Kliff vom Trobachtal who has some great sons in germany, everyday he looks more and more like Kliff himself."

Look at the picture of "Phantom von Pallas Athene" on their site and compare it to Kliff vom Trollbachtal. The reason he looks more like Kliff himself is because the picture is Kliff himself. It looks like they edited it along the top of the picture to remove the dirt. Why do people do this? If you are going to steal a picture of a dog and edit it to say it is yours, why would you edit one of such a well known dog?

Alexis I just watched thee video you speak of after I posted. It is the live ring on a choke and I never heard a command given to the dog. I hear the guy behind the camera say present the bite up high, gee wonder why? The dog ends up way low almost on the decoys wrist.

Alexis, that does appear to be a picture of Kliff rather than Phantam. I'm going to ask about that. I don't know the owner of the kennel very well, but  talk to the trainer on a fairly regular basis. I'm surprised, but like I said, don't know the owner very well. Only met him briefly at a few training sessions. The comment about Phantom looking more and more like Cliff everyday makes me think it might be some kind of joke to see if anyone notices?

Don't you also just love the picture of Air Force One - trying to imply the secret service buys their dog. I've seen the same picture on several of these "Executive Protection" dog sites. Much can be answered if you just go to their other site - Creative Genetics. Same phone number for both operations just more honest on the CG site 800 645BULL.

These guys are dairy farmers and come from a farming background - ergo I'm sure the dogs are looked at as merely livestock so they see nothing wrong with a scenario of having 150+dogs and selling them as guard dogs for used car lots ( see their site). I'd just bet they have very little knowledge of the breed; doubt they've ever read Capt Max ( including suggestion that no one should own more than SIX GSDs at a time) and have no clue or if they do don't give a rat's a** that we find this kind of  commercialism offensive.

What amazes me is that people sucker so easily and buy from these folks AND buy at incredible inflated prices . I love how on the guard dog page the dogs are offered WITHOUT training just natural aggressiveness and lo and behold who buys one of those but a sheriff's department. ARRGH!

Make no bones about it this operation is all about money - not only do they obviously have it but they are making it too. In 5 weeks from 2/21 to 4/1 they had 4 litters with puppies offered for sale for a total value of $48,000. From4/18 to 5/24 they are expecting another 4 litters and I'm presuming expecting a similiar financial windfall.  The owners have a very successful business selling imported bull semen for cross breeding purposes and are quite obviously very good at marketing themselves and their products - and good at making money.

I live in Northern Cal - never met these guys at a trial, never seen them exhibit ( plus nothing on web to suggest they every have). As far as their "trainers" - Greg is the brother of the owner of the site and is a dairy farmer and works with the Creative Genetics company and from what I can see by their site prior to 6 years ago didn't even know what a GSD was.  Ryan works for the CG company as an AI tech (a number of his family works for CG so not sure if they are related or what). Couldn't find anything at all about the third guy. I do love the training pictures -state of the art facility with falling down fences and chicken wire.  Enuf said.

Larrydee, Is it possible for you to comment on the quality of puppy that your friend got for 1200 dollars. At the end of the day the Haters, speculations, uninformed commentary, and readin on the website mean Nothing to me. What would mean something to me would be the quality of the dogs they are selling. I know a little about Czech and West lines and its obvious to me many that are commenting know very little(trying to be diplomatic) about the dogs or lines yet are making judgements on the product. If they are in the business of selling dogs and they are selling dogs of good value the other BS is just that ...BS!

Look at the videos of this dog described as executive level:

http://kreativekennels.com/jekyll_ped.htm

Oh yea great video Sue, my 13 week old pup has a fuller grip and the decoy and handler can't even let the dog counter. Glad to see them reward him with the sleeve for that crappy bite. That's high dollar training right there. Hope they don't keep buying these nice dogs, just to bring them to the states to mess up. What a waste. If they have all of that money they need to invest some in actual trainers. They are probably not worried about trainers as these dogs wont title again, just used to pump out some pups anyway.

Annoys me as well. Both the handler and the "decoy", if one should even use that term, are at best substandard. We have women in our club who are more adept at handling and decoy work. Too bad people don't care about knowing what the hell they are doing rather than simply making some money.

For people who would say, ok, the dogs are good, well, I say "no training is better than poor training" and when you get a dog these jokers have played with, you will have a lot of remedial work to do to fix it, if indeed it can be fixed. The two in the video are going to end up getting bitten. Maybe that might help them think about getting some training first before they do this kind of work. Taking care of dairy and dairy animals is a far cry from managing a kennel and training dogs.

But, so it goes in the GSD world. No one cares and there are enough people who will not do their homework and will buy here too. Pathetic.

Sueinc,

"I said", the point is; "if she gets a good DOG,"I said nothing about your opinion of the care or training. It appears that Larry answered the question about the dog she received. Excuse me, if I put more value on first hand recepients of this kennel than internet speculators. If the quality of the puppy she gets is good, she can always get good training, if the quality of the puppy is substandard then the training can't offset that. The lady seems to have gotten a good puppy and everybody glosses over that fact, but we can still find some negativity......I guess this a typical day for the board!

Yes, typical for this board.  Maybe we are just jealous since we can't claim to have the largest working dog kennel.

Not gonna take a stab at the training huh? NO takers on how great the videos are? Didn't think so, nobody can be that stupid. Oh wait...I shouldn't say nobody, obviously people have and will buy from them, and will no doubt actually be impressed by the quality of the videos. Who cannot see the before and after performances from these dogs and notice the decline? I was pretty much sickened by Quantos recent vids. Sure the genetics will still be there to pass onto pups, but what a shame about the adults. I guess it is an OK sacrifice to optain some puppy sales? I personally think it's sad and a little disgusting if not ignorant for someone to spend so much, obtaining good quality dogs and not going the extra mile for at least one decent trainer to train the remaining boys to handle/decoy dogs.

With the prices they charge for their puppies one would expect they could afford a pair of scratch pants....

Now all kennels must be great trainers and have great videos to meet armchair validation. Quality of puppies is secondary to these aspects. YOU win and I need my head examined to continue to engage in this dialogue!!! Continue on with the great commentary...I'm outa here.

Sorry Desert Ranger...my remarks are not directed at you...another reason for me to shut up...Take care!

No problem.  I don't that that boy is bad at all; some good training, fix the less than full bite and he's fine.

I had a look at this Site

It looks as if they have nice facilties, and have spent a lot of money on the set up so good luck to them, Biggest or smallest the main thing is the animals welfare and they seem to provide it

One thing which did concern me was the way the Trainer Pakwerkers were dressed, and the way they work is not impressive at all

The fellow with the Black Dog holding the Lure above his head with bare arms, My Fred would have took both the Lure and his Arm together in seconds

Plus the Fellow in a t shirt bending down to the Dogs height with his face level with the Dog. that is Bad Training, and very amatuish, they need to improve a lot on that score

Over here the Training session would not have been allowed to take place

If only one Dog is going for Protection the Pakwerker gets kitted up correctly

It only takes one time for an accident

Steve

Largest, smallest, whatever. All I see is low hipped, roach backed skinny GSD's. And what's up with the obsession with Czech GSD's? Every time I see a picture of one of these it looks like they fell in the mud and were shrunk in the process. Guess I don't have that discriminating eye that some elitists on this thread claim to have. Keep these dogs under the porch where they belong. Real dogs laugh at them behind their backs because they feel sorry for their dumb asses.

And for those of you who seem to "know" who the top trainers are you need to get out of the house once in awhile. There are so many "top" trainers in this field you couldn't find enough paper to write their names down, much less commit them to memory. You never heard of my trainers but they are authentic so I don't need your seal of approval to know they are the real deal. The top trainer isn't the one with a trophy. It's the one that teaches the dog that takes down the perp who tried to enter the wrong house - are you feelin' me now? And I sure ain't talkin' no sleeve play! Those dogs on that web site you alluded to put me to sleep. My "pet" quality dogs look like they're on meth compared to that lame dog and pony show. BTW get used to paying top scrilla for real dogs. Yeah, there are dogs that merit 1500, 2500, 3500, 4500, 5500, 10,500 and beyond. There are also great dogs at the SPCA that were just too much dog for the pea brain owners who failed them. Remember the dog's greatest limitation is it's OWNER.

MaxVonPotterdam