German Shepherd dog

air,

 what do you consider ''proving yourself''. if you title your own dog's that's 1 thing. but anyone can pay to have a dog titled or even buy a titled dog! said it before and i'll say it again. just because their titled doesn't mean they whould be bred either!

now if you title, korung, ofa/a stamp then great for you. do you also talk to these 'unproven breeders about why? if not well then don't come here and throw a fit about it! because your just as much at fault for their ignorance!

i'm sick of reading about titled vs non titled, show vs. working.

let's talk about training, pedigrees, what dogs are PRODUCING!

kenny

Kenny..thanks for that. I agree. :) At least on the part about just because they are titled or not, doesn't always go to say how worthy they are of breeding. I myself, have both. It's all on the individual animal.

I won,t comment on the AKC show ring thing.

 At one time Schutzhund was what it was designed for a breed worthness test,  what it has turned into for the most part is a sport and less of a test after goverments swaying to the demands of the few and local and our own administration of the test it has become a watered down version of what it was supposed to be... That is why i have always advicated a program like S.PT 1.2.3 (sport titles) and a real breed worthiness test for Schutzhund. 

I have titled several dogs from my own program, taken them to National level and multiple time Schh3, as well as delving into "other rhelms" such as agility, AKC obedience, narcotics, cadaver and explosives detection, therapy dog work, wilderness and disaster SAR training.    For me it is "what it's all about" - bringing a puppy from my own-bred litter up from the start, training, titling and achieving whatever the dog and myself are capable of.  For me getting the titles and achievements on the dog I bred and raised is very rewarding.  

As for the question "does it annoy you when you see people breeding dogs that have not proven themselves?" - not really - to each their own, what is good for me doesn't mean it's right for everyone else.  I am proud that I achieve titles etc with my own dogs, someone else can be just as proud achieving titles etc with a dog they raised from a pup but didn't breed - and someone else may be just as proud of their dog that isn't titled but is the very best companion and best friend to them.    It's all an individual decision we can all make for our own dogs and breeding programs.

molly

I believe it may in fact be better to conduct an evaluation of a dog prior to entering formal training.  The results are then less blurred by the differing training techniques, or the proficiency level of the handler. 

FYI  Not sure how other kennels do but all of my dogs sold here puppies etc are open registration never have SOLD one with limited registration ever. I have given away a female puppy with a "innie" with limited registration because we did not want her breed.   Marlene

The natural drives and temperament of a dog after having been meddled with in training are sometimes not an actual reflection of it's genetics.  The training process is to ensure the handler's knowledge of the dog's limitations and strengths that it may produce in breeding.  That is, in the process of "doing", and not from the end results (i.e., titles & scores).

I may as the pup's breeder, be able to give a fairly accurate assessment of it's producing capabilities, but then, I won't be the one that's breeding it.  A handler who has commited his/her time to the development of the dog, should have no illusions of what the dog brings to the table.  It may very well be, that a dog who the breeder has spent countless hours training, and not achieved any working credentials, is more intimately known for its capability of producing (to the person making the breeding decisions), than a purchased dog already titled. 

My "imposed" limited registration, is for a very good reason, and not limited to "just" sporting titles.  An acceptable cause to lift limited registration could include, for example, passing NARC detection training and evaluation by a certified k9 trainer, or PSE certificate accompanied with a temperament test.  Basically, an evaluation of work and temperament conducted by a third party professional, passing OFA, and min. 2yrs age for females.

There are many k9 trainers who would rather begin with a young adult / green dog that has little or no training.  A working evaluation and temperament evaluation conducted on a dog free from the influence of prior training will more objectively reveal if that dog is a simple waste of time.  This dog, in it's rawest form, won't have anything to "unlearn" or re-learn differently, either.

I want my puppy owners to KNOW the dog you decide to breed, and breed for intended working purpose.  But essentially I was stating above, that you may learn best about a dog, before it has learned a particular skill, and of course, also in the process of teaching it.

Good for you Kenny, and good for the breed - Hat's off to you.

molly

I have no derision for people who know dogs well and do an occaional untitled breeding, from good gods with a good health guarantee. I am, however, disgusted by a few of the puppy farm "breeders" around here who breed generation after generation of garbage, no OFA, nothing. I really cannot ignore it, as often I end up training these dogs and have to deal with them firsthand. I bite my tongue when people ask me what I think of their dog, as a professional, you have to.

There is a breeder in my state whose ad claims "established 1906!"....ummmmm.  They might have maybe wanted to check when the GSD actually came to the US before making that claim.

The most amazing part is, two of the breeders that come to mind charge $1000-1200 for their puppies. And people pay it!! If they were good quality dogs, I could care less, but these are poorly structured, unhealthy, neurotic nervebags.

BTW- I sell pups with disqualifiying faults on limited registration at a reduced price.