The Pedigree Database: German Shepherd dog

I am seeing waay too many dogs being adv with weak ears or huge ears( one tilts inward, ears that are placed too far down on the head, ears too high on the head, etc), also noticeing the eyes are getting rounder and foreheads getting rounder too. the top of the skull is supposed to lay parallel to the line of the muzzle.  many top sjkull lines are at a different angle nowadays.  not just showlines, but also quite a few working dogs.  maybe it is just what is being posted here, and not the norm...

Has anyone else been seeing this or am I just delusional (I may already know the answer to that, lol)

the face and expression is just a major pet pieve of mine, and in my opinion the shape of the ears and eyes plays a big part into that picture.  also a correct forehead (or forehand). 

Anyone else's opinions or even corrections on this matter would be appreciated. 

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

I have a thing about ears & eyes, and also I don't like domey (I think that a word?) looking heads,
you know heads that look houndy and are not firm and clean cut, and almond shaped eyes.

here's my dogs, I prefer beefy stockier GSD's

www.vonryansgermanshepherds.com

Uber Land, that is the result of breeding for short, blocky muzzles;  those Akita type heads so many rave about. The results are not only round eyes, a domey skull, incorrect ear sets and too much stop, it  also leads to overly long soft palates, missing teeth beginning with the premolars and bad bites. Ever see a GSD with a tongue so long he can't close his mouth without the tip sticking out?  That's not as cute as many owners seem to think.  It's the result of the muzzles and the tongues not being of the same length. An overly long soft palate restricts the airway and a dog like that will huff and puff like a freight train when asked to anything at all strenuous. You can  stand at ringside and hear it from some GSD's when they are being gaited.

As long as breeders go for the Akita head, it's not going to get any better. If not corrected, I think there a good chance that many GSD's will look like mastiffs in a few more generations. It's happened in many other breeds and will happen to this one too. Most AKC pug dogs can't even breathe with their mouths closed - overly long soft palates, too short muzzles, too long tongues, round bulging eyes, and protruding foreheads. It's a vicious circle. For every action there is a reaction................

I believe the breed standard calls for an almond shaped eye. It is not just for looks, that shape and the deeper set that goes along with it protects the eye from injury while working in underbrush. Round eyes are more prone to  injury and not considered desirable in a tending/working breed.

I happen to like the look of the big head, I have seen to many "collie" looking Gsd's. However, I  also think if they get the muzzel to short they are going to lose the ability to track. We complain about designer dogs, we need to quit desigening the GSD, we do not do as good a job, as Mother Nature intended. If we do not quit this we shall lose the breed qualities that we hold so dear.

This reminds me of dress fashion, furniture, change the look every so often so are out of style and will "update" the look. It is no longer you buy a couch for 20 years. You have to keep up with the neighbors.

On the larger head, the dobie's back in the 60's, began to breed for the small very skinny heads, and they were trurning on the owners at the age of 2 and 3. I read a study on this, the head was not leaving room for the brain to grow, so it was exploding (there was a technical term for this, I have since forgotten). I am of the thinking that to many GSD's have been going the way of "collie"/skinny heads and they are trying to reverse this trend. However, I think they need to find a happy medium to preserve all of the qualities of the GSD.

1doggie2, I think you have made a very good point when you said you personally prefer a big head, but understand that it can get carried to the extreme. Personal preferences are just that and not what any breeder should be concerned about when they made a breeding. The idea is to accept the standard and breed for it and not select faulty dogs just because they are what happens to  appeal to our own sense of beauty or what we happen to have in our backyard at the time. I've read the SV breed standard a number of times and cannot see where an Akita-type head is correct for a GSD.

thanks everyone.  great replies.  now why, if you can open a book with illustrations and such of a "correct" specimen, then why are these faulty heads and expressions getting put into the ribbon's? 

I probably already know the answer to this, politics and money. 

Also, people have been saying the gaits are getting better on the german dogs.  alot more floating style.  I have seen photo's taken at the 2007 bzsz and the movement of  some of these dogs was terrible.  very unbalanced and definitly not fluid like. and this was off a german website, not pictured on american websites.  

Whats wrong people?!  these are not correct.  so why are these dogs getting top places?

Jennifer

They are getting top places because they make us think, this is the best. Once we stop buying, they will change. I have a problem with front feet so big they look like they need a pair of shoes, hocks being walked on, roached backs (if that back was in a person they would exray for MS).

As far as the gait on the GSD, I would like to see what an old time herder looked like gaiting, not what a show gate looks like. I think we have mucked that up to.If anyone has a video of this I would love it if you would post it. 

Uber Land,

I have also noticed dogs so over angulated it's too painful to watch them move,
it's almost like some form of deformity,  dogs that even have titles on them, some
are short bodied & curled over in the back, I also notice when looking at the back
part of their hocks, they seem to be bowed out a bit on some,
shouldn't that area be somewhat straight?

I just don't understand it, when the judges can look at the illustrated standard
of the breed, it should be a no brainer.

I don't think judges are going to fix anything.  it is up to the breeders to not breed to these dogs and not turn a blind eye to these faults.  ALL of these features are what makes the gsd a gsd and not a lab.  you start choosing rounder eyes, domed head, poor ears etc,  you are losing what makes them gsd.  they must not only be able to perform the part which they were bred to do,  but also look like the breed they are.

I saw a very well bred male posted forsale several months back on this board.  beautiful puppy, but his head looked like a rottie.  very short blunt muzzle.  These are being produced by top VA males! WHY?

I am not naming dogs, as I do not want this thread to turn into a flame match or a bashing.  And I am also fully aware my dogs aren't perfect.  but my dogs also do not get the hundreds of breedings a year that say a VA male would.  

Jennifer

Are you kidding me?  Tongues where the tip  sticks out the front?  What.....like a PUG?????  That's awful, and anyone who thinks a GSD with a muzzle so short the tongue tip has to stick out like a PUG looks "cute" should be marched off the yard arm of Capt Mikes pirate ship.  Really stinks.

I was  taught that you cannot change one specific part of any dog without it's effecting the dog in other ways. You will rarely see a dog with a short muzzle and a long back or a dog with a long muzzle and a short back. It's possible that the shorter muzzles are a direct result of breeding for shorter backs and/or to improve the roach. Maybe that roach has caused more problems than we think? 

Sue, didn't you ever seen photos of GSD's with their tongues hanging almost to their chests? Those dogs can't close their mouths without the tips of their tongues sticking out between their incisors.  I don't think that some realize that is a fault and not something to brag about. Talk about a serious fault in a dog working in a very cold climate. Can you imagine what would happen to that tongue tip during a German winter?

In the AKC show world, the breeders blame the judges for ruining breeds saying they have to breed what wins. The judges blame the breeders saying they can only judge what is brought to them. I can't speak for the SV shows, but IMO AKC judges dictate breed type, not the breeders and the breeders let them gat away with it.  Breed dogs that are in compliance with the standard that don't win in the ring or breed dogs that win in the ring but can't do the work they are originally bred for? We all know the right answer to that one.

Blitz:  Honestly,  I have seen panting GSDs in pictures who's tongues have seen way longer than any of my dogs tongues,  I thought the length of the tongues looked odd, but never gave it much thought beyond that, I didn't put it together with those short faced dogs.   Personally, I don't think those GSDs with the short muzzles look very attractive, but  even if I liked squat muzzles, if I was a breeder and some of the dogs I bred couldn't even keep their whole tongues in their mouth I sure as hell wouldn't think it was cute and I would be very concerned with the direction my program was headed.