The Pedigree Database: German Shepherd dog

Picture is a bit fussy but I would like your opinion on this x-ray.

How old? Tranquilized? Assume a female, when was she last in season? Are those buckshots?

18 months, had something just to relax her, last season was 2 months ago , the spots are light spot from the camera.

the positioning is reasonable - the knees are turned in properly so the hips should look tighter than they do - they are pretty lax (not tight enough in the socketes) and so I would guess "fair" or borderline/mild from OFA.

molly

the positioning is reasonable - the knees are turned in properly so the hips should look tighter than they do - they are pretty lax (not tight enough in the socketes) and so I would guess "fair" or borderline/mild from OFA.

molly

Positioning is optimal. I'm also curious as to when your girl was in heat. I would guess, (1) OFA "fair" (possibly,"good"); SV HD "normal" (possibly, "fast normal").

Immobilization via buckshot?

Ummmm, tough call for me although it's a well positioned xray.  Best guess is OFA preliminary fair at this age, but wouldn't be too surprised if they'd say borderline. Since you can't get a number on her til she's 24 months, another xray will be needed if you intend to send the xray to OFA. It will be interesting to see if anything has changed by then. If not, then she should get a fair or better. SV? Don't know, so will have to go with Louise on that one.

Buckshot!

That reminds me of the time I went away on vacation, Theo was just a puppy,
and I called home to see how my mutts were doing, and my daughter told me
one of the neighbors were using Theo & his mom for target practice, they had
both escaped from the yard, but eventually came back.(it was a be-be gun)

When I got home I noticed Theo>(VON RYAN) (Of course, who else do I talk about ALL the time).....................

Anyway he had what looked like a tooth mark on his
front leg, it was a hole in front & a hole in the back of the leg.

So I brought him in & got x-rays on it, they didn't see anything at all in it.

It just healed on it's own, but he has a lump on his left front leg, you can't
notice it unless you already know it's there, it's round & feels like a bone.
and it sticks out, it's almost the size of a marble.

Needless to say, those neighbors have moved out of the neighborhood,
AW........

Getting back to the subject, I don't like the look of the left hip,it looks as though
it could be considered as mild from the OFA Drs.

Although the knees are lining up, the picture seems on the left side anyway,
to be twisted or up higher than the right side, I'd say redo them.

her  left hip  ( right side on screen ) is subluxed and I can see a tiny bone change  on the femur head and thickening of the femural neck .That would make me nervous  for  the possibility of a non passing rating. positioning is  good .   this x -ray would not go "a" normal   maybe  a noch zugelassen and that would be a squezze  ... check the size of the left  femurs and the neck   compared to the right ( left side of the screen )  . un even development   ........

if you send this one in I would really be interested on the rating

Pia

Asymmetrical appearing heads a factor of positioning, Take a look at this example of asymmetry of hips that were recently rated as OFA "good".

Here, I've taken mouland's x-ray and have sharpened it:

Regarding mouland xray, positioning is bad.  Hip on right side of image significantly too close to xray film (pekvis rotated along axis of spine.  Legs not perfectly parallel to each other and spine/pelvis (leg on right side of image has the worst positioning).  Exposure and clarity of xray not good.  Because the joints are not at the deep end of the spectrum, no better than OFA fair, but could be xrayed to be an OFA fair with optimal positioning.  In my view, this female will live out a normal life with no disabling HD if he is kept in good condition, fed properly and supplemented a few times a week with glucosamine/chondroitin.

Actually, I beg to differ with Preston because the left hip joint (the right hand side of the image) is further from (rather than too close to) the film because the pelvis and spine are rotated slightly to the dog's right (the left hand side of the image).

These changes in magnification result from the inverse-square law which states that doubling the distance between the light source and the subject results in one quarter of the light hitting the subject. IOW,

Louise, now that I think about it you are right as to which side is "enlarged".  The head farthest from the film will cast the largest "shadow" on the film.   I had that reversed.   Thanks for pointing this out.  Therefore, the largest socket will have the advantage for apparent depth of insertion of the ball.

I know from my experience, and I am certain that any rotation changes the degree of apparent insertion of the ball into a shallow socket (except for exceedingly deep sockets as in an OFA excellent) changes level of apparent insertion of the ball into the socket.  If one ball is larger than the other and there are other signs of roation along the spine as an axis, the xray is not positioned properly, and that is what I see in the first xray.  Plus the legs are not straight parallel to each other and the spine. I know from experience that I could position a dog with shallow sockets and fairly good balls to xray as an apparent OFA fair or worse depending on how well or poorly I positioned the dog.  I believe that either KV or the exposure time is off on that first xray, too.  Very good positioning actually helps a dog xray at its best in my experience.

Proper positioning of the first  xray would likely make the hip on the right side of the image look a bit less inserted, however that difference would disappear if the leg on the right side was made parallel to the spine and pelvis centerline.

My vet always used a foot pedal to activate the xray unit and we would use three people to position and hold the dogs without anesthesia.  Usually a few xrays had to be taken to get the hips positioned perfectly.

This dog has normal --not displastic hips.  The positioning is POOR and is making it look as though the dog has some subluxation.  Even with the poor positioning there is still decent joint coverage, and no bony changes apparent.  Redo again when the dog is old enough for OFA certification...and make sure it's not within 45 days of a heat cycle. 

QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS

When would a potential laxity of hips for a female END after her heat season?  (ie how soon would you want an Xray taken?)

http://www.offa.org/hipproc.html: 

Hope I don't get anyone upset at this but I would not give either of these girls better then a Fair.  The first x ray is more then far enough from her heat that her hips should have been back.  Even after sharpening they didn't look better.  I would watch her gait... her left might start shifting on her as she matures more.  Both hip and knee.

Louise, one more thing.  You are one smart lady when it comes to GSDs !

I've personally seen  GSD hip xrays with more laxity than these receive fairs and goods.  There is little consistency with OFA ratings. The SV might do a more consistent job, I'm not sure. Louise and Preston would most likely have the answer to that one.

I'd be shocked if this dog ever shows any lameness issues until she's a elderly dog if then.  HD is usually expressed at 2 times in a dog's life - either as a puppy, called juvenile expressed, or as an elderly dog when most dogs with or without OFA numbers have formed some arthritis in most of their joints anyway, including the hips. The reason why evaluating a hip xray on an older dog, say 8 years or older, can be tricky. Some of the best moving dogs I've seen in many breeds do not have normal hips while some of the worst are OFA goods and excellents. One breeder told me that  she found her dogs that walked with the stiffest gaits had the better hips on xrays. Hip status and movement rarely seem to coorelate as far as I can see unless you are talking about a dog that is severely effected..  

An OFA fair is still considered a normal hip and suitable for breeding. I image few would think about breeding a fair to another fair or to an NZ.

Good Post Pia .. ya the results will be interesting.

Preston, my being "smart" has nothing to do with my conclusions. Yes, I have taken a required course in radiology (where the vet tech and radiology techs shared the same instruction) as well as continuing education courses in radiology. There, one either learns or you doesn't learn--much like being a student of the physics and mechanics of correct GSD structure/movement. IOW, one has to be a "sponge" when learning.

In the real world, it is vet techs who teach veterinary students their practical skills in radiology. Highly skilled vet techs often travel to veterinary clinics to help them set up their "technique charts". In most veterinary practices, the licensed vet techs are responsible for taking radiographs and for optimal positioning. It's not rocket science.

In the above digital radiograph (taken of a friend's in-heat bitch at my vet's), when noting the visual asymmetry, the vet said something to this effect: "You know, Louise, these x-rays may not pass OFA"--because of the distinct differences in the apparent sizes of the femoral heads and necks.

I told him that my boys have never produced bad hips (or elbows) and to send in thees x-rays anyway because I believed that they would pass. I felt that these differences were essentially "artifact".

On this board alone we have seen 3 or 4 hip xrays where one side appeared to be of a different size than the other in spite of correct positioning; I believe all received OFA clearances. It just doesn't seem to make a difference and I agree with Louise, that finding must be  an artifact. Obviously OFA allows for that and grades xrays accordingly.  Dogs are not symetrical and neither are we

Yes but an xray that is very well positioned gives the dog his best presentation of what is actually there.  I know from my experience with slight changes in position (rotation of the pelvis against the back as the rotational axis), would increase or decrease penetration of the ball into the socket reciprocally between the joints and in dogs with shallow but good joints, rotation could make the xray look bad when the dog was really an OFA fair. I also found that moving a leg out of parallel to the spine/pelvis cnterline would generate or reduce laxity and/or penetration of the ball into the socket.  I am a big believer in very careful, proper and optimal positioning and if necessary taking afew xrays to get there.  Why not give the dog his best shot?

With most hip x-rays, if I assume the person positioning the rear is right-handed, I note that the dog's right hip (handled by the positioner's weaker left hand/arm) is not stretched as well as the left (stretched with the stronger right arm). I have observed that time and time again, this inequity accounts for asymmetry and slight pelvic/spinal rotation. There is little variance whether the dog is totally anesthetized or lightly sedated.

No--there is still an asymmetry due to poor positioning--rotation. Now, the right femoral head appears larger than the left.

Neverthless, the dog is very likely to pass OFA. When your bitch is 2 years old, I suggest you take her to a different vet for OFA x-rays.

Hey, now there's an xray....

I think they look like they will pass in the last xray...

It's still a tough call for me; this is going to be a close one I think. I don't see the marker indicating which side is which. Looking at the xray, my concern is that  the right side appears to be a little shallow but the positioning is still not perfect.   Best guess is a better xray at 24 months will get her an OFA number, probably rated fair. You can always send the best xray to OFA  or a board certified radiologist and see what they say. It's enough to drive you crazy, isn't it?

I think the last x-ray is "better" in position but to be fair to the dog, I still wouldn't submit them until the positioning was much better.  I think they will pass, just would want to see the hips a bit deeper/tighter in the sockets but this could be because of positioning!

molly

My opinion has changed little. The bitch will OFA certify. There is still positional asymmetry due to spinal rotation.

Sometimes positioning of a young, lean dog is difficult because of pronounced dorsal processes on the vertebrae and lack of musculature along either side of the spine.

This rotational error may be minimized through use of a thoracic positioner (such as that used on a surgery table) and perhaps some weighted positioning bags placed to either sided of the lumbar spine. This may require a little heavier sedation--not general anesthesia).

You may consider going to a veterinarian with digital x-ray equipment because using multiple pieces of x-ray film adds up to money and time. Digital radiographs are much faster and involve no use of film.

Have we totally confused you ?