The Pedigree Database: German Shepherd dog

Let's start a new topic on Pannus and talk about the disease here.  I had a dog develop Pannus and when taken to a top eye specialist was told Pannus is most likely  a UV problem.  He stated it's prelevant in dogs in high altitude and artic breeds who have too much sunlight refracted from the snow. That particualar summer my dog had spent many hours outside. He had shade but was exposed way more to sunlight than he normally had been in his life.  He didn't get Pannus til he was almost 9.  With that being said we can find fault with any line.   Research of the health of a bloodline is great, but this particualar disease seems to have alot more  enviromental influences than some other diseases.

Karmen

Karmen,

good Idea for the new thread.

I have a 6 yo spayed GSD.  She has been in Wisconsin and a few trips to out of state all of her life.  She is in an indoor dog. She developed pannus about a year or so ago.  i have been told pannus is an autoimmune issue.....  that is made worse by certain environmental issues - the UV exposure.

Darcy

Hi Darcy,

My Ophthalmologist said the auto immune response was caused by the sunlight's radiation and it caused the body to attack the cornea of his eye.  I have tried doing some more research on it today but pesky work keeps getting in the way :).  My dog was primarily indoors all his life except that summer when he developed the condition and was outside most the day during my work hours. 

okay, i'll jump in, too.  this entry is just for informational purposes and not intended to defame breeders.

gala v haus ventura (matzo v kirschental x xandi v wildsteiger land) born in 1996 and euthanized in 2004.  gala had spent most of her life (1996-2002) either in the house or in a kennel building.  in 2002 we erected some outdoor kennels with igloo dog houses on concrete and moved gala into one of these.  by 2003, she had developed pannus and by 2004 she was completely blind.  our vet told us the same thing; that it was caused by UV rays.  on hot days, she came into the house to be in the airconditioning and on cold days (below zero) she also came in the house.  all the dogs have time outdoors, but come in at night, on hot days as well as cold ones.  i would have to go along with the autoimmune theory on this.  we have/had other dogs who spend far more time outdoors than she did, yet they have not devolped any problems.  i never bred or even attempted to breed this dog so there are no offspring to worry about.

i think some good information could come out of topics like this one.  i'd like to see more of this sort of thing and far less of the acidic discussions.

pjp

Interesting that pannus is thought to be related to UV exposure. Most of my kennels in the Sacramento Valley were outdoors, shaded but still exosed the dogs to a LOT of sunshine. I'm sure 100 dogs passed through those kennels over a 15 yr. period, yet none ever developed pannus. Of course the humidity in that area is extremely low.  I wonder if there are any stats available relating to UV + humidity? I would suspect humidity/moisture might possibly be a mitigating factor in an eye condtition.  Probably comparing apples to oranges here, but since I haved moved to the humid East coast I have had several eye infections, which I'd never had in the past, and I spend less time in the sunshine than I did back home. (there ISN'T as much here!)

Just a few thoughts. Thanks for starting a new post about something I know very little about.

SS

There are 2 types of Pannus, corneal and third eyelid. The former is the more destructive form. I have a dog with 3rd eyelid Pannus and with drops once a day and ointment twice a week she is fine. In fact, now that she is on medication for it you cannot tell that she has it by looking at her. With proper early diagnosis and medication most Pannus dogs will live a normal life without significant eye damage.

Certain breeds, including GSD's are  more susceptible to it than many other breeds and UV light does make the disease more progressive.

He also said the auto immune response was localized in the eye which furthered his belief the over exposure to radiation by sunlight sparks Pannus.  First question he asked me was the dog kept outside.  I told him that was the year the dog had been outside most the day while I was at work.  He then said it's Pannus but then did a full exam to confirm diagnosis.  The dog was then put on Cyclosporine and Predisone drops and it cleared up very nicely.  He was then taught to wear doggles and stayed inside from then on out.  But my theory on long term use of those drugs for Pannus is a whole other thread.....

Karmen

How much does elevation and not just bright sun have to do with UV exposure?

Also, i am using neo poly dex ointment at night and genteal night time drops in the day.  My girl also has deposits on her eyes that are irritating and the dr. siad the ointment helps.  I have never used the more expensive treatment.

Darcy

I have known 3 dogs with Pannus, 2 was father and son, the 3rd was my dog. The only thing common with these 3 dogs pedigree (other than the 2 being father/son) was Eiko v Kirschental 1607402. All 3 dogs were located in different parts of the world.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/464389.html

hukka, now that is interesting!!!

my gala also had eiko kirschental.  above is a link to her pedigree.

as i said before, it is not my intention to discredit anyone with this

information, but hope that it will be useful to someone and that some

good may come out of it.

pjp

I agree, that's interesting Hukka,

My boy 4 year old has Pannus, started at 2 1/2 years of age.  He also has Eiko v Kirschental in his pedigree.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/395749.html

Marsha Seck

I had a BYB GSD in Idaho who got pannus. No Kirschental in that boy whatesoever  :)

UV exposure is elevation dependent. At sea leavel, such as Sacratmento it's much less intense than at 4,600 feet. We treated our dog with two different kinds of eye drops daily, cyclosporin and dexa-something, and were told we could manage the disease easily that way. Or move to sea level. Which we did because life took a fortunate turn.

About 3 months after the move the panus went into remission. We had the occasional flareup where we'd put some drops in for a day or so but in general, we were pretty much rid of it. He died from the effects of DM when he was 2 months short of his 13th birthday with his eyesight fully intact.

Just wondering if anyone has used any kind of "eye viamins" to see if they might help. I know they claim that it can help with older eyes, as it helps with softening the age hardened refractory workings of the eye. 

Just curious..

Debby

ebinezer052899@yahoo.com

Never owned a Dog with Pannus, so i know little about it.

But could it be that a lot of Dogs over in the USA live indoors Meaning the house enviorment,

Could the dryness in the Air in a house  have anything to do with the problem , least ways could it aggravate it,

Just a thought

Steve

I don't know Steve1, one of the dogs I am talking about never left Slovakia, always outside dog. His son also outside dog and none lived in high altitude.

 How much does elevation and not just bright sun have to do with UV exposure?

It has alot to do with it. At 10,000 ft the sun is not filtered at anywhere near the same degree as at sea level. I've seen several dogs over the years (not mine) get pannus. It has always been related to the elevation, and ad to that most of them worked in the snow. Not a good combination for eyes.

Very interesting topic!  One that that has always puzzled me is that one of my girls was diagnosed with Pannus at 5 years.  She and her littermate sister developed it the very same summer when it was very dry and hot outside.  Both started having their eyes run and become filmy looking. The next thing, they starting having spots on the eyes.  Now, both of them are almost 11 years of age and neither of them has anything wrong with either eye.  One was treated with with ointments and the girl I kept was not.  I wanted to see what happened, and nothing did, the eyes got better.  I DID breed my girl before she had developed Pannus, I have her daughter here who is 6 and her grand daughter who is almost 2.  Neither of them have any problems (yet).  Am hoping for the best!

Peggy

gsdlvr2

Our elevation is approximately 800 feet and that is rounding up. I don't think it was an issue in our case. 

Thanks,

Darcy

 Darcy, maybe not in your case. Are you near water?

We used to live across the street from the largest inland lake in Wisconsin.  Basically the entire surrounding area was just a big swamp at one time.  Now we are further away.

I have been reading all these posts, but am wonderign why you ask if we were near water other than the low elevation. 

This particular dog has had many health issues and will probably not see her 7th year.

Darcy

 The reason I asked about water is because even at sea level water and the reflection off of it can have a similar effect to the high altitudes on eyes. True of an ocean or large body of water.

Sorry about your dog. Wish she the outlook was better.

Many of you have some misconceptions about UV light. Perhaps this will help:

Ultraviolet, or UV, radiation makes up part of what is called the electromagnetic spectrum (EM) of light. The human eye can see wavelengths of light that are in the color portion of the EM spectrum. Light with wavelengths shorter and more energy intensive than the human eye can see is called ultraviolet light. The UV spectrum of light can be further broken down into UV-A, UV-B, and UV-C but for simplicities sake, we will forget that for now. 

UV light is contained in the range of wavelengths that is produced by the sun.  Only a small portion reaches the surface of the earth. Most UV light is absorbed by the ozone layer that protects the Earth. Some is reflected back into space. It is important to understand that sunlight is received as direct rays and as diffuse light. Diffuse light is light which has been scattered by the atmosphere and is sometimes referred to as skyshine (as opposed to moonshine LOL - just kidding). The sky is blue because air molecules scatter the shorter wavelength blue light. UV light is scattered even more than blue light. So we actually receive more UV radiation from this skyshine than from direct sunshine! Just think about how it is possible to get sunburned at the beach on a cloudy day when there is no direct sunshine from the sun. Also the reflection of ultraviolet radiation from the surface of water is about twice as great as from a field of grass, but only one-fourth as much as from freshly fallen snow. One receives about eight times the amount of UV radiation from a snow-covered field as opposed to a field of grass. The glass in our homes, offices, and automobiles prevents the passage of most ultraviolet rays. But outside, certain surfaces like water, snow, concrete etc. reflect a lot of UV all around, including into our eye and onto our skin.

How much UV radiation reaches the earth's surface varies greatly depending on the time of year or season, time of day, weather conditions, type of surface, altitude, and latitude. It is important to note that at higher altitudes more UV radiation, between 4-5% for every 1000 feet ascended, can reach the earth's surface. So for those of us at higher altitudes, we naturally have anywhere from 40-50 % more UV, but that can be even more dramatic an increase if there is snow cover etc. But it is incorrect to assume that at lower altitudes one is not getting any UV exposure.

We know that UV-C radiation damages DNA in skin. It is highly likely that eventually some genes will be found in the German Shepherd Dog that are damaged in one way or another and that then are expressed by the development of the disease. It is just like how human eyes are also damaged by such light, but we get cataracts.....

Thank you for some of the science behind this Hodie.  Anything about the eye structure that makes this happen in the dogs eyes vs humans getting cataracts? 

Do you know has this been a long stnading problem with German Shepherds or a more recent problem?

Darcy

Thanks for the great topic.  We adopted our 5 year old GSD a few weeks ago from a cousin who was moving and couldn’t keep him.  He was diagnosed with pannus last year and was prescribed prednisolone drops.  He lived in AZ and I’m sure spent time watching the kids swim in the pool, so the UV probably played a part.  As a coincidence, I did check his online pedigree and saw Eiko V kirschental, but it is way back on the 6^th generation.  Glad I found this message board.  Thanks for the great information.

Pannus is more prevalent at high altitudes. It is seen in other breeds as well. I live in Colorado, at about 6,000 ft. We have more sunny days here than any other state except Arizona. UV is pretty strong, and gets worse the higher you go. Air is very dry almost all year.

I have a male GSD who developed Pannus at about 7-8 years of age. He was born at sea level, but moved here at 1 year of age. The eye specialist has me treat with cortisone and special compunded cyclosporin drops. It works well, but the Pannus lingers. It always worsens if he is out on sunny days in the warm part of the day. The specialist said if he were brought to sea level, it would go away.

Last winter, I took him to Florida for 6 weeks. The pannus completely vanished after about a week there, but returned fairly quickly after we returned to Colorado in the spring.

This dog has produced about 50-60 puppies, and only one has ever developed the condition, and it lives in Colorado as well.

Interesting thing that I remember.. this dog developed the disease within 6 months of being sprayed directly into his eyes at very close range by a skunk..  Since it is immune related, I wonder if one day there will link something to skunk-spray and bacteria that may trigger this in certain predisposed dogs...

(Remember that doctors didn't believe stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria until late last century. )

Just an observation!

Bottom line, I don't believe this is a simple genetic trait that you can test for and weed out of breeding animals..

No Kirshental either.

the elevation here is 1211.  no large bodies of water within 5 miles.  we do get a fair amount of snow in the winter time and humidity is fairly high year 'round.

pjp

Humidity has nothing to do with this. Genetics, altitude and latitude do. If one is at a higher altitude, you get more UV radiation. If you are at a lower latitude, meaning closer to the equator, you get more UV radiation. If you are around surfaces that reflect you receive more UV radiation.

The current treatment usually is eye drops using prednisolone acetate and/or cyclosporin. There is a surgery available where some of the scar tissue can be removed, but how effective it is, and how much it helps long term since the underlying pathology is not resolved, is unclear. If not treated, and in some cases, even if treated, the dog will be blinded. But even blind dogs can do well.