German Shepherd dog

I would be interested in seeing such a suggested contract. There is a group of independent people here who are interested in forming a board of arbitration for breeder, buyer, trainer disputes. Breeders who would agree to arbitration, to minimal contract standards and others would be listed on the site as "reputable". Whether anyone will put their money where their mouth is remains to be seen. A group of 5 independent people, each with experience in the world of breeding, or training or simply a dog lover, will be represented. In a dispute, the "proof" of ones claim would be required and strict. The board would attempt initially to simply mediate between parties, but in the event someone refuses to participate, or in cases of gross misconduct, findings of improper conduct on the part of a buyer, trainer or breeder would be posted IF unanimous.

Many of the situations that come to light here are meritless. Others are unknown simply for the fact that the buyer, for example, failed to get a contract. In rare cases, breeders are not honoring the normal "standard of care" in their contracts or dealings. 

A contract that you think is viable would be interesting to see. A group has been formed and discussions are taking place as to how to conduct this board. Of course, it would be voluntary. There would be a fee and the fee would be either donated to a reputable organization or perhaps used as compensation of "victims". The idea is an attempt to help clean up what is rapidly becoming a cesspool of unethical business practices. It may go nowhere, but we will see. 

I would be willing to help with whatever kind of leg work would need to be done in order to help get something like this accomplished. I think it is wonderful that you would offer your expertise, knowledge and time to help out. Just let me know what you would like help with

Sharon

This sounds great, a good written contract is priceless.

Would this contract hold up in every state? Since every state has different laws.

I would like to have such contract.

Thank you for offering your expertise.

I would love to hear more on this contract...I thought I had a good draft but in the world of Dogs and crossing county and state lines , the kind of contract I would need would be one, and all here could use to make some of the bad deals recently described here on this base......a case that need not ever get here..,,,because fo a contract backed by the proper tight uniform guidelines.

My question is the difference of different states...Like Im in Texas and we have some laws, for instance like the accompaning of a title app with the sale of a domestic animal ,,if a registration exists and a pedigree is in place...that must accompany any sale ,,,,,and delivery of such animal...the refusal to do such is against the law,,,but can it be enforced,, if there was a contract between buyer and seller, stateing the dog was akc  bred and the litter was registered,,,I understand the wording is important in all contract.s....

This is a very deep subject and we all need to be informed by someone who legally can tell all of us  where the wrongs are that we do...in our seeking the proper venues.....

Most of us are mediocre people , not wealthy and attorneys charge more than we can afford to spend .....this is the reason so many people wing it.........on paperwork.....

Thanks for your concern    and any help

I am glad to see so many positive responses.  I think we can move forward, but first let me explain what prompted me to start this thread.  A new club member of our schutzhund club is on the verge of a lawsuit because the breeder will not remedy an obvious dysplastic hip on an 8 month old puppy.  The owner is willing to hire me to fight this and most likely spend more than she actually did on the dog just so "justice" is served.  Oh by the way, the contract we will sue on is a lay written contract.  I know as well as anybody does that not every buyer has this luxury. 

With that said, this is my best attempt at a solution that hopefully many people can benefit from whether they are selling or buying a dog.  To address a few concerns relating to state specific enacted laws that deal with dog sales, we can handle it a few ways.  The "leg work" would require someone to do a little research or come forth with knowledge such as Yellowrose has regarding state specific laws. 

However, under the concept of  "Contract Severability" if one clause is found unenforceable in that specific state, it does not void the entire contract but just that clause.  Secondly, the standard legalese would be to include the following, "To the fullest extent permitted by law, Buyer and Seller...." so that we achieve uniformity. 

This is a deep subject and we are only scratching the surface with the possibilities this could lead into. I also agree with and applaud Hodie in attempting to form a mediation panel.  I use mediators and arbitrators more than I use the court system.  We can include a clause in the Contract to include a mediation clause that points to Hodie's panel and make it binding or non-binding.  The possibilities in drafting is limitless, but at least we have a forum going.

The next step would be to set up a FTP site or something similar where I can post documents for all to see so we can comment and suggest what would go into the document.  Can somebody make this happen?  Once this is set up I will load a document I have drafted in the past as a starting document and we can go from there.  Others who wish to participate can email me theirs and I can load it to the site as well.

Please remember that what we are trying to achieve is a FAIR document which protects both Buyers and Sellers, so just because you are not a Seller, doesn't mean your ideas do not matter!

Thanks to those who appreciated my analogy to the AIA documents.  They really are a

hodie,

I think that an impartial arbitration board is an excellent idea. 

 Continued from above:

As well, there are people doing training who don't properly care for dogs in their custody. There are people selling all types of things who are simply doing it for the money. Any arbitration board can only do so much. But I believe it CAN work given that it would be populated with adjudicators who will look for FACTS, not he said, she said. With a high standard required for evidence, we will quickly throw out baseless or unsupported claims. We will ask both or all parties to present their side and we will strive to MEDIATE a successful resolution. That is all we can do. However, in the case of some blatant misconduct on any side, we will set the record straight. 

I have mediated behind the scenes many times. My interest is in the breed and in helping people, from all endeavors, have successful relationships with dogs/pups. To this end, I think the board would serve as much as a resource as anything. We can and will solicit FAQs to post on what paperwork one must eventually receive from a variety of transactions, be they a dog purchase or a training agreement, for example. We can post an FAQ about contracts and explain that any person has the right to create and/or use a given contract. But ALL contracts should probably address certain issues and I will leave that to the original poster and us to come to some agreement on what those issues would be. 

It should be crystal clear that it is NOT the intent of the board to suggest or require any breeder, for example, have a certain refund or replacement policy. That is between breeder and buyer, but yes, perhaps an FAQ could be written to suggest the pros and cons of such policies.

To ensure absolute integrity of the board, if a successful mediation could not result (and that would obviously mean all parties would have to enter into that mediation with an open mind and heart), in order for any "unethical", problematic or "wrong" doing to be found, the entire 5 board membership would have to find so. 

Continued:

DaKine K9, that would be great.  I haven't bred a litter yet but I would be very interested.

Two Moons,

I do not disagree with the majority of your post.  It was not rude but fairly accurate.  Not all Lawyers are created equal.  You happened to have negative experiences, however I am not out to defend my profession.  This is not what this is about.   You mention Pro Bono, well this is what this type of project would amount to.  I am offering to do this "for the public good" with the help of others who want to get involved.  If you took this as a solicitation from me to drum up work then you have truly been mistaken.  Trust me, I should be out training my dogs in my free time.  Those who know me and hopefully those reading this thread can understand what the true intentions behind this are. 

With that out of the way, several have PM'd me and have shared with me their contracts.  Thank you to those who have also offered to do legal research as well.  Instead of posting them all, I will start with an outline containing key clauses and ask for feedback.  Once we have the framework done, I will begin inserting the relative language and of course open it up for discussions.

There are unethical people in all walks of life. There are unethical doctors, mechanics, breeders, trainers, and yes, lawyers. There is also no reason why a lawyer, or a vet, or a breeder for that matter, should not be compensated for their work or what they have to sell. And I know a lot of lawyers and many of them do a lot of pro bono work, just like many of the vets I know.

No, a contract does not solve everything. But from time immemorial they have served to clarify the responsibilities, requirements and entitlements between people, companies etc.  wishing to do some sort of business together. A clear contract SHOULD be an aid towards that understanding. As well, a contract can help someone who does not have a lot of experience ASSUMING they READ and UNDERSTAND the contract.

The average reading level of the US citizen is very low. That fact, coupled with the fact that in the GSD world so many try to do business with people in foreign countries, especially Germany, where there are language barriers, it is no wonder there are so many misunderstandings.

Even with a contract, yes, things can go awry. And that is exactly why talking at great length and asking lots of questions with someone you are considering doing business with is a good idea. What is clear is that so many of the people here who get screwed did NOT get a contract and therefore, they did not have a good understanding of the business they were transacting.

I'd like to help in what way I can, hosting documents or post links to this plan.  I've obliged several breeders who inquired for permission to use my own contract, which I carefully constructed, although having no legal background.  Also, we might consider a stud-service contract (I have one, but mine is removed from the website).

I'm all for anything that assists BOTH dog buyers and sellers in conducting ethical, fair and equitable business. My contract is doubtless full of holes, with plenty of potential for my learning its weaknesses the hard way. One problem in drafting sales agreements concerning animals is that few attorneys are knowlegable (sp?) about the specifics of what I call  "normal" business practices specific to the "industry" ( I hate that  word in reference to my beloved animals, but can't think of a better one). Further complicating that unfamiliarity in general is the fact that every "industry" is dynamic in that what might be considered  "normal" business today can/does change over time (often rapidly!) according to the dynamics of market, economy, competition, etc.

Back to the subject: As much effort as I have made historically/continue to make to earn and maintain a reputation as and honest, ethical, empathetic businessperson, and as proud as I am of those efforts, I still worry that despite all my efforts and good intentions. "WHAT IF" might be right around the next bend. WHAT IF I'm next for an unpleasant experience with some impossible-to-please (unreasonable, unethical, dishonest) buyer who might wake up on the wrong side of the floor intent on blaming someone for some negative element of thier life, see the dog they shouldn't have bought in the first place, (can't afford to take care of, no longer want, now resent having spent the money for., whatever..)  then drag my ass to court on a weak, overlooked technicality in our agreement . (how's THAT for a run-on sentence?!) Will I be the next one TOMORROW,  to wake up, turn on my computer and find dirt spread across the planet accusing poor-but-honest little me of unfair, unethical business? Will I end up bankrupt a year from now from legal fees spent to defend myself? Welcome to life in a litigious society, Shelley. Sucks you have a conscience, not to mention an over-active, paranoid imagination.

I'm sure a lot of us would sleep a lot better having a better-written, more enforceable dog/puppy sales agreement! I for one would feel even better if my agreements were custom tailored, with specifics pertinent to intents/expectations/guarantees of both buyers and sellers for a few different types of sales. Ex's: Pups/dogs sold as competition/breeding prospects, dogs/pups sold/donated/placed with no money changing hands as "pets", dogs sold/donated to law enforcement agencies, etc.

I don't know what  I can do to help, clearly not well-versed in law, but I am very willing to assist Dakine and all the others offering assistance above in any way I can.

Thank you all! :-D

SS

Anyone that would have a problem with a contract like the above mentioned would not be a person that I would want to deal with.  Dishonest people fear anything that attempts to MAKE them comply.  I think it's a great idea.  I have my doubts as to how judges or magistrates would interpret the verbiage or how laws vary from state to state or even county to county. The other issue would be proving or disproving cause.  How or why the hips were bad, the elbows, etc etc.  I am involved in animal nutrition and also a breeder so I have seen well bred dogs raised improperly and made defective by improper feeding practices as well as poor keeping.  I have also seen dogs physically injured by too much too soon or accidents that the owners tried to cover up.  I applaud anyone that could draft a document like this.

Mike

http://www.ehretgsd.com/testdoc.pdf

All,

Here is the link to where the working document will be hosted.  The document that pulls up now is just a test document that I used to show how we all can access the link.  I will work on the Uniform Contract's framework and post it later this week. 

Thank you Daryl for your help.

 K9mommy,

The purpose of the arbitration panel will be to help mediate certain types of disputes where there appears to be evidence and not just he said, she said type situations. The panel of adjudicators except one (whom I have no yet contacted) has agreed in principle to serving and we will begin first with setting some boundaries on what we can and cannot or will not do. 

Another part of the web site will deal with FAQs about how to choose a breeder, a trainer, types of contracts, what kind of paperwork to ask for/expect when buying a dog, how to check whether dogs are OFAed, how to file complaints with organizations etc.

It will not be our purpose to dictate ANY specific contract to anyone. But in providing a document that helps explain responsibilities on both the part of the buyer and the seller, we may be able to shed light on the fact that, indeed, there are many provisions possible in contracts and people can decide for themselves what types of contractual agreements they wish to enter into. As well, we will point out that there are some people who do not have guarantees, contracts etc., and this is not necessarily bad IF one is dealing with an ethical individual.

So while Dakines' proposal is separate, I do think that it will be an important part of demonstrating some common and standardized issues between buyer and seller and with his permission, we will post it as an example contract, but not a REQUIRED contract.

I am one who believes that there is a "standard of care" or, if you prefer to refer to it as a "code of ethics", that all breeders should follow. It is not necessarily in the small details about replacement of dysplastic pups, as an example, that we are going to press, but rather that there ARE contract and that any contract should at least clarify certain aspects of the sale or engagement, whatever that may be.

One of our suggestions in bold will be that people actually READ a contract and understand what it does and does not say.

I wouldn't get too carried away just yet, as broad and diverse as these problems may be within the breed, my observation is that the larger majority of discontent revolves around issues of that initial transaction (guarantees or lack of, or buying without researching, or purchasing without reading the contract).  Those ideas are great and I could toss in a few more, but they involve a lot of effort that would redirect the focus of this thread, which will be more productive as a concentrated effort on a single focus.

As far as elbows go, I don't think they're quite as necessary, but definitely an added boon to the breeder for offering that guarantee.  There are of course other common problems in the breed, and my contract simply states in "full sweep", Ehret German Shepherds warranties for 5 years from the date of birth, against genetic diseases, allergies, heart problems, thyroid problems, or if the dog’s death is directly due to a congenital health problem as diagnosed by aveterinarian.

Hi there...

I only breed a litter a year however I have a contract that was drawn up by my attorney.  I recently had a buyer who signed the contract without any interest in what it had to say at all even though I sat down to go over it with her.  I am interested in what new things this has to offer and am willing to help out in any way I can...

Shannan

Any member of the GSDCA can file against another for a violation of their breeder's code. Signing that code was optional when I was a member and I think it still is. However, if a breeder signs it then he is expected to conform to all the provisions. . The charges then go before a committee for review and disposition and if found guilty, the member will be disciplined in some manner.

I tried to access the link above, but only got the home page for Cox, an ISP I think. Is this still an active active project and is there another link or was that the correct one and do I need to registered with Cox in order to access the page?

I hope this takes off as there are some very poorly written contracts in the dog world and most breeders don't bother to pay an attorney to review them.  Most of which I would never sign myself.

There is no luck for me in pulling up this contract?

Some years ago I added another clause to my sale contract because of isolated dog bite incidents. For what it is or is not worth, clause reads:

Regards,

Bob-O

Yes-I'd like to know more also and wouldn't mind to help. Thank you, DaKine K9. Will forward my contract to you also. Thank you!