Breeding non titled females - Page 2

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Bundishep

by Bundishep on 26 November 2017 - 03:11

Price or titles only goes so far as temperament quality goes, ive had 900 pups turn out far better than more than double that price also looking at parents temperament does not in many cases help all that much , but what can determine more than anything is complete temperament testing in person or using someone with years of temperament testing knowledge if 1 is not able to test first hand..... and testing on a older pup say much older than 6 or 7 weeks is preferred to get a far better picture of what temperament will be like as an adult, too many people gamble when putting a deposit on a big name litter that only turns out many times to be just poor or average temperament ive made that mistake myself. One might get lucky but in most cases youll loose.


Fantom76 (admin)

by Fantom76 on 26 November 2017 - 05:11

You have had 900 pups? Is that a misprint?

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 November 2017 - 11:11

Think Bundishep was talking about $900 puppies, Fantom !

by safeman on 26 November 2017 - 13:11

Is Peggy Walker still ripping people off ?

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 November 2017 - 17:11

Thought Peggy Walker was based in Michigan ? Breeder OP refers to is Canadian.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 27 November 2017 - 16:11

Breeding should not be in the way of titling a dog.
If you know what you are doing, and know your dogs, and can make assessments without having blinders on, than I don't see anything wrong with breeding untitled dogs, SO LONG you work them and know what you've got.

However, to say that breeding stands in the way of titling... if breeding is the main concern you have and it gets in the way, than your priorities aren't right, in my opinion. First, know what you've got. OFA's can't be done until 2 years of age anyways and by then, a dog can easily be titled to an IPO 2 or certified in whatever you like to do IF you have the means to do it and accessibility.


Rik

by Rik on 29 November 2017 - 17:11

schutzhund means "proofing". it is originally intended to show a dog has the qualities to be a German Shepherd Dog, as intended by the founder of the GSD. These proofings are required in Germany, the country of origin for the GSD. They are not required in North America, probably the largest market for the GSD (maybe China?) so why bother when you can get $2500 for just pups.

these people saying that titles don't matter are selling pups the fast, cheap easy way to North Americans. maybe they are retired and supplementing their income, maybe they are just supplementing their income. they are not friends or advancing the GSD as a GSD originally intended.

if you want something that looks like a GSD, then buy from these folks more intrested in your check cashing than the pup they send you. if you want a real GSD, then search out the real breeders of real GSD. In north America there are probably 3 or 4 breeding real GSD (show or working}.

JMO,
Rik

susie

by susie on 29 November 2017 - 19:11

I tend to think similar.
.Although I don't doubt that there are people able to breed good dogs although they are not titled those breeders are not the norm, but the exception...
To be honest - most breeders that breed unproven/untitled stock don't care about working ability at all-they want to make money.
It's almost impossible to make money out of self titled stock, and it's almost impossible to make money out of already titled West European stock.

The breeders who don't title their stock either claim:
It's too easy to title ( so why the heck don't they do it-it's just one day of their life...)
or
There are no clubs in my area... ( so how do they know if their dogs do have any working abilities ??? )

We are talking about a working dog breed-that said any breeder who does not title his/her own dogs should be able to show you successful "working dogs" bred by him/herself- be it police, KNPV, Ringsport, IPO, or some kind of service dogs.
The GSD was and is not supposed to be a pet dog only...it's a working dog breed whose suitability for work has to be proofed somehow...
There are pet dog breeds enough, the GSD should not be part of it.


susie

by susie on 29 November 2017 - 19:11

For me titling a GSD has to do with respect for the breed. ( and I don' t care if it's IPO, KNPV, Ringsport, SV, DVG, or AWDF).
Almost all breeds are able to participate in agility, obedience, dog diving, or anything else, but only a few breeds are able to participate in "classic" dog sports, and even in these breeds you must select the good ones from the mediocre ones...
Just my personal opinion, no citizan of the USA needs to care about it, it's everyones own decision...

yogidog

by yogidog on 29 November 2017 - 20:11

Susie
To be honest - most breeders that breed unproven/untitled stock don't care about working ability at all-they want to make money.
I think u are wrong I don't title dog in any sport but my dogs go through a rigorous daily system to make sure I only have the best WL out there. this year I spent 10 thousand euros on new stock. And not to mention 7 thousand on up grade on kennels a new transport vehicle. 500 every 3 month on food and this is only my hobby. I train dogs every weekend and sell a few to the police every year. I don't breed that often as I have said many times. I also go to seminars every year with some of the top trainer's in the world at least 2. to make sure I'm up to date with my knowledge of training dogs. The money IV spent the time I put in with my dogs I will never get back. But the reward for me is known I always have the best intentions with the breed





 


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