by Smiley on 20 October 2017 - 20:10
*****Yawn****** So lame. Why does every single discussion of an IPO dog end up in a pissing match declaring what dog is truly more bad ass and "harder" than others. Come on people. ***Huge eyeroll***
This is getting so old. All you super hard, extreme fighting dog enthusiasts should ask Admin to form your own forum so you will stop hijacking every single IPO thread. Seriously.
99.9% of the population does not want or need a "hard" dog. Times have changed. These dogs aren't usually bred on purpose (outside of some military or police programs) because you will not be able to find them homes. It's that simple. Really, it is....and I don't think the breed is going to go to hell in a hand basket because the majority of GSDs are not "extreme", "hard", or "serious". I doubt that was the intent of the breed founder to create a breed of only "hard" dogs. I believe he wanted to create a breed of dog that was stable with good nerve that could serve the masses in a variety of ways. Period. It gets so tiring constantly bitching with this small percentage of people who want hard dogs. Ok, good...you want a hard dog. Great. Don't hijack every single IPO thread just to bash the dogs. I respect their opinion but now it is time to move on......please. There is really nothing left to discuss as it always turns into a big pissing match. Time to move on, folks. Nothing to see here.
by joanro on 20 October 2017 - 21:10
No body has 'bashed' any dogs on here except valk, and seems to have lost interest after he was corrected about his mis-assumptions.
99.9% of the population doesn't want a show dog, either, but nobody is harrasing you over your redundant brags. Why does the admins need to give us our own forum? Just because you don't want us to post about a topic you hate?
Move along, you bashing working dog people is 'sooo old'.
by Glock on 20 October 2017 - 21:10
So Smiley its ok for a WUSV level IPO dog to panick when being shouted at by a helper ? And be presented as working dog specimen?
by joanro on 20 October 2017 - 21:10
BTW, smiley, times have certainly changed.....families are wanting ' bad ass' 'fighting' mean ass family loving, family protectors more than ever now....because society has taken a down turn with an exponential increase in crime over the past several years.
And why does every discussion about protection dogs get hijacked by you insulting us?
So you talk about your show dogs (sooo laaammmme), we will continue to talk about our 'bad ass' biting dogs.....you just skip over our discussions. Okey dokey?
by Smiley on 20 October 2017 - 21:10
Glock..IPO is a SPORT and not every dog will be successful. You don't use a gosh dang competition to determine a dog's breeding worth or suitablity for work. Please.
And..Joanro...I am not surprised by your comments because you bully people on here and act like you are the greatest breeder in the world! Yes, I will talk about my show dogs which, by the way, is my DDR working line dog. I am sure she will be thrilled to be confused with a show dog. *another eyeroll*
This is my last post while you two continue to cause trouble on the board. I have zero desire to engage you. Perhaps, you should start a new thread on your hard dogs? Just a suggestion.
by joanro on 20 October 2017 - 21:10
Smiley, I think you are projecting, again.
Smiley: '..While you two cause trouble on the board.'. Again, you are projecting. So I am not surprised by the negativity by you...just more of the same from you.
If you dont have anything to Contribute to the conversation, take your bullying self elsewhere.
Yes, while you continue to talk about your show dogs, we will talk about our biting dogs, okey dokey? Is that ok with you, smiley? Or shall we ask your permission before we hit submit?
Sounds like you have a problem. Eye rolll!
As for me thinking im the best breeder in world....no, but I would say I have a good eye, I am objective, and I've been lucky. Lucky that I chose 4 puppies from jinopo's two jiris that turned out to be outstanding dogs, and became my foundation stock; and lucky that two pups from two other breeders in Czech turned out extremely good.
But I've also been unlucky; one pup I imported from the Netherlands turned out to have very bad hips; two littermate pups i bought (who's dam was imported prego from czech) that turned out have multiple missing teeth; a wgwl pup born in usa that came with a two inch over bite and cost me 1000$ shipping here and back to breeder, another czech ypougster bred in texas that had crippling elboes dysplasia. So it takes good luck when buying pups and honesty when the luck is bad to not use those dogs for breeding. So, i guess that makes me an ethical breeder, smiley, producing as good and sometimes with luck, better than my original dogs.
And it also takes a lot of time, keeping pups from litters and raising them to see how they turn out, and placing them where they will fit best.
Am I the 'best breeder inthe world' ,smiley? One litter a year is not enough to evaluate on that level, but i will say I am a good breeder.
by duke1965 on 21 October 2017 - 06:10
Hard dog can be handler hard, I prefer to call a dog that can take lots of pressure strong, and IMO hardness or a dog being strong, has nothing to do with a dog being preydriven or civil,so if a dog stays on the sleeve after out like Gero in the video doesnot say anything about being strong or hard, one way or the other.
this is a female from my breeding that IMO is strong and handler hard(not handleragressive), she happened to to be from line of Gero as well, https://youtu.be/7ByTAqXoqqo
handler hard dog makes it less easy trainable, as in not impressed by corrections etc.
her sire Ajax is a strong and civil dog, but not handlerhard, therefore, easy to train and correct
by Western Rider on 21 October 2017 - 06:10
This is dukes other video
by Gustav on 21 October 2017 - 11:10
I think the title of this thread is WUSV dogs that fail........ I wrote a post on my beliefs why some dogs had problems, before the thread morphed into Gero. Having attended every WUSV ever held in this country, and well over 10-20 nationals that are qualifiers for WUSV, I feel like I have a basis to make a contribution to this thread. Also, myself as well as others have titled dogs in IPO that again demonstrates a working knowledge of WUSV. Finally, as a dog trainer who can read dogs when looking at them work/compete I also I felt I could make a contribution to this topic....I hate seeing threads hijacked also, But, if you really know nothing about WUSV, or IPO, I find it hard to see your perspective of contribution based on title of thread🤷♀️.
Now that doesn’t mean anybody can’t post, IMO, but I’m merely saying some of the people doing the most posting and having the strongest opinions, haven’t a clue about why WUSV dogs fail.......and to me that causes these threads to derail!
by Koots on 21 October 2017 - 16:10
As evidenced by the vid posted in the beginning, you can see how some of the dogs are not prepared to deal with the strong helper aggression and the yelling on the long bite. As well, the helpers present very strong challenge by their posture while dogs are on the sleeve, even without stick hits. I think the helpers did a great job of separating the strong, world-class dogs from the others. The strong dogs got amped up by the helpers presentation and aggression, with the top-placing dogs still able to be clear enough and prepared enough (well-trained) to 'out ' when commanded.
As I stated before some of the training did not prepare the dogs for what they encountered from these helpers. But, this does not mean that some of the dogs that failed would have passed even if they were better prepared, as there is inherent weakness in some dogs that was exposed by this trial. All the training in the world cannot overcome or cover up weakness. It's then only a matter of how the weakness will be exposed by the helpers. In some other dog training disciplines, it is the job of the decoy to expose each dog's weakness and try to take points away from the dog. In IPO, because of the nature of the routineness of the trial, some dogs weakness can be covered up by training 'to the routine'. It was refreshing to see in this year's WUSV that the helpers presented strong challenge to the dogs, and the 'cream rose to the top'.
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