SV going to change the rules - Page 8

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susie

by susie on 12 June 2017 - 20:06

No problem, I still believe in the "universal" GSD, for sure no "fictional concept", but to the same time I believe in basic rules ( conformation, health, AND working ability ).
Too many people try to sell no 4 dogs, but are not willing ( or able ) to proof anything of the above...

by duke1965 on 13 June 2017 - 07:06

think this new rules are mainly to comfort showline breeders, seen plenty dogs,clubs and people being disqualified for cheating their exams over the past decade,

so guess this is a way from SV to keep everybody aboard, the sport people will still title their dogs as it is the only way to compete, so dont think their will be much change overall, other than the SV will be able to keep numbers in both members and dogs up

also dont see were all the malinois in IPO and mix malinois in KNPV are getting down by lack of breeding requirements, think there are other reasons for "major "  change in overall  working breeds,  

 


by Gustav on 13 June 2017 - 10:06

Good point about Mals, Mals X

by GSD911 on 13 June 2017 - 11:06

"Working line" folks want to win the trial, no matter the standard -"
"Show Line" folks want to win the show, no matter the working ability..."

Here is the problem.....As I have said before, A breed worthy working dog should work great and show well and a breed worthy show dog should show great and work well.

Judging bias aside,
We'll know when we get there when there is an assortment of both competing regularly for Universal Sieger and on any given day either can actually win.


Dog1

by Dog1 on 13 June 2017 - 12:06

GSD911,

I really like the Universal concept. The program was building steam a few years ago and it's pretty much gone now. I don't see the opportunity for any life to come back into it.

It's more than just advertising and promoting the event. The concept has to be a way of life from the time the breeding is done to the time the dog is ready to compete. It's a total concept.

A few years ago I think we saw more of a focus on the better structured working lines and the better working show lines. Things were put into place as incentives. The scoring system at the sieger show gave participants something to work for, gave the breeders something to consider in their next litter. One the working side there were some V rated working dogs at the sieger show and the V conformation rating was attainable with a better example of the working line structure.

We don't see this today. No working lines are showcased as Javir was a few years ago and the scoring system was abandoned.

Add to the fading total GSD concept and you have the rules that realistically exceed the above average persons abilities and resources. To participate you have to have trialed here and there and have a minimum score of this and that. There is also the consideration where the rules favor the working lines in the Universal competition that stifles the show dog participation. The forces that foster participation are just not there.

The momentum was lost and look what we're left with. We have to dumb it down to encompass the breed. Not saying that isn't necessary, just saying don't hold your breath for the Universal concept to grow.

by duke1965 on 13 June 2017 - 14:06

realisticly you cannot walk a street in two directions at the same time, so the universal idea is a dead born child anyway IMO,

tell me one breeder, be it showline or workingline, that is focussing on that, and is succesfull at it, not as an incident but regularly


by GSD911 on 13 June 2017 - 14:06

"realistically you cannot walk a street in two directions at the same time, so the universal idea is a dead born child anyway IMO"

Yes you can.... PROOF- Ober von Bad Boll, Yasko Von Farbenspiel, Remo von Fichtenschlag....
These dogs have two things in common, they are all show dogs and they all were very good working dogs.
Kudos also to the working breeders who have worked to provide V rated dogs that work. Just DO it and stop making excuses.

by Bavarian Wagon on 13 June 2017 - 14:06

The biggest thing preventing working lines in the United States getting V ratings is the IPO title requirement...

by duke1965 on 13 June 2017 - 14:06

so you think an incidental workingdog with V and an incidental showline that works well are proof that it works, I know several breeders in showline that want them to work well also and put a lot of work in it, respect,

I know one workingline breeder that focusses on exelent exterior first, saw 3 different IPO3 dogs of him ran of the field when presented on a strange field and strange helper

there will always be exeptions, but wouldnot call a V on a workingline or a IPO3 on a showline proof of anything getting back to before the split


Dog1

by Dog1 on 13 June 2017 - 22:06

Duke1965,

A few breeders have and have been successful with it. We did an exercise here on PDB a few years ago about show dogs with working ability and the results discovered in those posts continue today. Believe me, the genetics that produce work and pass the ability on exist in the showlines. Not as much as 10 years ago, but that's a different discussion. Go back to Amigo Begier, Enzo Buchorn, and Vando Moorbeck, maybe even Odin, and you'll find all the proof you need.

The dogs are there. They're not in the same league as the top working dogs but they're better than most. Where are the people that are willing, know how to, have the resources to, raise a dog from the beginning to be both a working and show dog?






 


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