Inappropriate Agression , but is this a fear biter? - Page 19

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Prager

by Prager on 21 September 2018 - 14:09

@ apple I agree with your description of social aggressive dogs as a dog who has a desire to be aggressive to anyone outside their pack. I would also say that socially aggressive dog is not aggressive to dogs ( or people) in his pack only because the hierarchy is established and respected. If the hierarchy would be broken or disrespected by any member, then the social aggression would occur even within the pack.
I am just curious why would you say that socially aggressive dog is insecure? I hear this now and then and it does not make sense. IMO the dog on the video is not insecure. He is very dominant. Dominant position needs to be maintained. Are you saying that the dog is insecure because he is worried about losing /maintaining/establishing his dominant position? I would not call that an insecurity but inherited drive or it may be called better as an instinct, of some dogs.

by apple on 21 September 2018 - 14:09

I didn't say that dogs with the trait of social aggression are insecure. I was saying some dogs that look like a socially aggressive dog are actually nervy or insecure or overly defensive.

by joanro on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

The guy pulled the dog' s ear and triggered the 'attack'....the guy was so scared he pissed himself, he even shook his leg as the piss ran down inside his pantleg. The dog smells the fear in the man and does not trust him. Anyone who thinks a dog isn't going to distrust a hand raised over it's head is foolish. The dog also has a piece of food on the floor over in the corner...these kind of dogs, including the Anatolian Shepherd, are very food aggressive. This set up is wrong if the goal is to ' make friends' with this kind of dog.


by duke1965 on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

would say that socially agressive and fear are based on the same, we can call it suspicion for sake of argument

, now if we have a suspicious dog that is confident and couragious, or one that is not, makes all the difference, then there are the ones that are not confident and couragious, but learnt that their bluff works, till the day their bluff is called, my guess is the mali in original video is such case


Prager

by Prager on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

Apple I like your post I am just trying to understand it better. Thank you. It makes sense. now.

by joanro on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

Most all the videos of the LGD made in middle eastern countries for the sake of sensationalism, use food to get the dogs to agitate.
Notice when this dog has hold of the guy's leg, the guy hops to the direction of the food appearantly to escalate the aggression when the aggression wanes.

I have an Anatolian bitch here that will kill another dog over a piece of kibble....a chunk of meat in front of her, and I know she would not allow even me to approach it...and I raised her from a small puppy!

 

The Caucasion in the video is FOOD aggressive and not socially aggressive.

 


Prager

by Prager on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

I'd hire this guy as a decoy. But that was not the point of the video. The video was about using front legs and dew claws to hold the opponent or prey. BTW the guy shook his leg to straighten up the pants and/or shake out a potential pain or discomfort of being in a powerful hold. if the due claws are long they can injure quite severally.

Prager

by Prager on 21 September 2018 - 15:09

Centurian said it well "Managing , as opposed to Rehabilitating, meaning changing back to 'normalcy' , in mind and function , are two entirely different phenomena !" That is why I get seriously annoyed by videos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZQd0mWZe3g



by apple on 21 September 2018 - 17:09

Duke,
I have a different point of view than you on social aggression. One of the problems in the dog world is that terminology can be very subjective and mean different things to different people. For example, some people consider a dog to be socially aggressive if he will bite a person. Used in that context, the term is more a descriptor of the dog rather than a genetic trait. Dogs will bite people for many different reasons, fear being one. But my view of social aggression is that it is a trait that is genetically determined. It is a form of active aggression as opposed to reactive or defensive aggression, so there is no fear involved and there really doesn't need to be any stimulus for the socially aggressive dog to bite other than a stranger being in his presence. That is what I was clarifying to Prager. The dog with true social aggression is not fearful or suspicious. He is simply motivated to be violent toward strangers. This trait has been bred away from for a variety of factors, so to find a dog that truly has the trait of social aggression is rare. What you tend to see much more often is what you referred to-fear or insecurity. The trait was probably more common in some of the Eastern lines become often the government owned the dogs and ran the show, so if one of their socially aggressive dogs bit someone there was nothing the person could do about it. Also, some people see the trait as a temperament fault. If it is true social aggression it is not a fault IMO. If the aggression stems from fear or insecurity it is a fault and not social aggression. Society has become more and more litigious with people suing for just about anything. Having a dog with the trait of social aggression is a majorly potential liability, so police dept. and private handlers are generally not in the market for that type of dog. Most of the protection sports would disqualify a dog with social aggression if he bit the wrong person, so they are not desired for sport. Such a dog can be trained not to bite strangers, but only when under the obedience control of his handler. If on his own, the dog will not hesitate to bite a stranger. With a small market for such dogs, there are changes in selection. Overtime, people have more and more come to believe a dog should be social, even though the GSD is supposed to be aloof. As a result, dogs with the trait of social aggression have become seen by many as something to breed away from and that is why they are so rare. There are plenty of dogs that will bite a stranger out of reactive aggression which is based on worry, and some of those dogs are confident and some are not. But their motivation to bite is different from that of a dog with social aggression.

by duke1965 on 21 September 2018 - 18:09

Apple, agree with most you say, but still believe there is ALLWAYS a trigger for a dog to start any behaviour, so I dont think a dog will attack or show agression to stranger, just for simple reason of doing so because of nothing.

 

furthermore, you wont believe the demand there is for real strong civil dogs, who will bite anybody but the owner, I regularly have dogs here where it will take me several days to be able to handle them, after that, they are superdogs for LE with experienced handler and with those dogs, im not looking for conflicts to make nice youtubevideos, mostly I give them some sedalin before taking them out for first time, and than bonding goes much faster then when you create conflict first






 


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