Serious Breeders - Page 10

we have to look further than fame and podium, and I understand that is not easy for every body,

I selected a dog for breeding now that wont be on any national or international level, and my male, who is titled minimal, just to meet breedingrequirements wont be famous also, but is clean on all healthscreening and has proper natural drives.and got some breedings and first offspring looks good

the problem I see here in czech also with sport breeders/people they many times when we discuss dogs and I mention a dog I like, the response is that its not so good dog as he only scored low points, that is one of the big mistakes IMO

 

 

Duke...I have no issues with that, and yes, if you're making breeding decisions based off of points you're an idiot. But the truth is...the majority of breeders in the United States are not doing that. The breeders I'm talking about are breeding to their own male or their friend's male because they "like" the dog and make up some line of crap to sell to the buyers about why that's the perfect male for their female. Really? You just happened to luck out that the perfect breeding male for your female is right next door? Come on... The most popular stud over the past 5 years, wasn't a podium dog. He competed at the BSP and didn't do half bad, but he wasn't a podium dog. People saw what he was and knew that there was value in breeding to him. He's also produced very well. Still though...most American breeders are going to their $5000 imported male who was $5000 for a reason, or their friend's male that will just make half way decent pets and calling it a day.

I'm talking about doing SOMETHING to compare the dog with it's contemporaries. If the training isn't good, but people can tell the dog is strong or has something to bring to the table, that's good too. Too many people (at least in the United States) know that if they show their dog, it doesn't do well, they will lose breedings because their stories are worth more. Generally, the dogs aren't that strong or good, and the training isn't good enough to cover that up, so they just don't train, don't show, don't trial, because then their stories and pictures are worth more.

And hundy...nice back hand. You're right, my V rated breed surveyed male means I only do sport, oh and all the police dogs I've worked in my area and my state, means I only hang out with sport people. You know it. I should travel over to England where the GSD is so amazing and thriving that they've had to change the rules because of the outrage over their last "best in show" GSD that was easily the worst dog I've ever seen. Yup, you're doing it right, and England is definitely the place to get a "well rounded" education about what a GSD should be. Wish I could get that level of education. A country that can only send 2 dogs to the WUSV because they can't get a full team to score 250 points in an IPO trial to qualify for the world championship. And when it comes to pets...so scared of a dog biting someone that they have some of the strictest BSL laws around...probably due to all the "pet breeders" that have been producing nerve bags for the last 3 decades. Trust me, I know what the state of the GSD is in England, all I have to do is look at an American Show Line club to see the same exact problems.

Don't believe everything you see on videos.

I really don't get it - everybody who is involved in "our" breed knows that most dogs are just "normal" dogs, no over the top prey monsters, not able to settle down, no killers, trying to bite any trespasser, no freaks, afraid of their own shadow. Take a look in our clubs and you will know.
The main problem are not the dogs, but the owners - the dog has to become the next champion, be it sport or show...
and the measurement, thanks to the World wide web, are the " champions" only, for good for bad, although those few dogs have never been the norm.

In reality in my country x thousands of dogs are titled and shown every year, but there is only one champion in each "camp", and this champion is the result of nature, nurture, a lot of training, politics, and luck.

I am sick about all this x versus y versus z - all of us want the same-a good dog.

Extremes are not good, it's reducing the genepool into one direction, forgetting the rest, no matter if we are talking about "real working", "sport" or "show".
Our breed became famous because of it's ability to perform in almost any venue, and be it as a companion "only".

A serious breeder is someone who never forgets about the initial traits of this outstanding breed, not kennel blind, not focussed on one goal only, but trying to breed dogs able to work, looking like GSDs, healthy and happy.
This breeder will train and test his breeding stock by himself or in a team, this breeder will weed out any dog not fitting the standard, and this breeder will give his dogs a life any active, social animal deserves.

The GSD not the most used police dog any more? So what?
Personally I doubt it's because of problems within the breed as a whole- Malinois and X-Mals may be better suited for today's "real" jobs ( higher in drive, more aggression, still a lot cheaper, but as a whole not a breed we consider "companion dogs", but specialists, and specialists have never been the goal for the GSD).

When I take a look at the whole population there are at least as many mediocre police dogs as there are mediocre sport dogs, no difference - the dog is good or not, but still "in duty".

That said a "serious" breeder has to be honest to himself, he has to know his dogs- and any potential buyer should never believe in tell tales, but in proof only.

End of rant-believe whatever you want.

Susie...come on...there are two types of sport dogs...those world champions who's trainers spend years covering up issues with, and then the shit nerved out, can't settle, club dogs that need to be kenneled all day. It's impossible for there to be anything in between...

You forgot to mention the policedogs, either performing like Rintintin, or never tested/prooved like the majority of policedogs in your country...
Every small department cooking it's own soup, the quality of the dogs depending on the local trainer...

BW wrote; if you're making breeding decisions based off of points you're an idiot.

and yet you know that is what is happening everywhere and  it is determing the direction a large portion of the breed is going

the american system didnot change much since the first time I was there in 1989, but think that has also to do with difficult acces to studdogs due to distances etc

Of course the breed is going one way as long as iPo is the definition of strength and courage and the only test that is recognised where else can it go and also more stud dogs will come from a sports background.

No, it has to do with people not willing to train their dogs, willing to compete, first and foremost.
It's easier to buy a titled dog than to learn by yourself.
And it's cheaper to use the own male than to use the good one some miles away from home.
Still today even the best imported or even home bred producers are rarely used in the USA.
After all a flight within the States is cheaper than the gas costs we have to pay in Europe to drive to the chosen stud some 100 miles away from home..

It's always about personal goals, will, and knowledge.

Yogi, personally I would love to see SV acknowledge Ringsport, Mondio, KNPV, SVV, ZVV, too = breedworthy AFTER BREED SURVEY, DNA test and health test - but honestly - when you think about the rules it's about different training only, not about different traits.
As soon as you get involved in different sports you have to realize that you are able to train a dog for every "sport title"- at the end the breeder and the buyer need to decide if the dog in question achieved the title because of very good training , or because of good genetics...
Back to square one- train and title by yourself...without it you will never know the difference.