German Shepherd Dog German Shepherd DogSV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 10 June 2009 - 19:06 |
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| I am sure that someone will correct me, if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that in 2010, the SV will "recognize" the longcoats (those with an undercoat, only). But, they are NOT to be bred with the stockcoats and separate breed books, shows and surveys will be maintained for them. Otherwise the standard and breeding requirements will be the same. Interesting, huh? |
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| Edited by Mystere on Sat Jun 13, 2009 06:07 pm :: |
Longcoats--2010 by wuzzup on 10 June 2009 - 19:06 |
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| Very interesting indeed . I must say I am pleased with that . Thanks Mystere I was wondering about the coat debate and how it was turning out . | |
Longcoats--2010 by SitasMom on 10 June 2009 - 22:06 |
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Why the separate books? |
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Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 10 June 2009 - 22:06 |
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| I think some people are going to be very disappointed, because they thought the matter was going to go back to the status up to the mid-90's. That is not what is going to happen, apparently. The coats are not going to be integrated back into the breed/genetic pool. Instead, they will be kept apart. What I would like to know (assuming my understanding of the decision is correct) is: 1. What happens with the coat that occasionally pops up in litters produced by two stockcoats? Does that coat go into this new set of breed books and become "breedable" in the longcoat segment? 2. What happens with the stockcoat dogs that consistently produce a coat or two (or three or four) in each breeding? 3. Will siblings be kept in separate books, almost as separate breeds? Will there be some manner of cross-reference, so the stockhaired siblings of outstanding longcoats can be easily identified for potential breeding? 4. Will there be some definitive means of determining which dogs are longcoats vs. "plush coats"? 5. Will a "plush coat" that is determined to be a longcoat be "exiled" to the longcoat stud books, shows, surveys, etc. What if the plush is already titled and surveyed? (I hate to ever compare events with dogs to those involving human beings, but doesn't this start to look a lot like the situation in South Africa, before apartheid was destroyed) 5. How would this work in the US? Nevermind, there are so many coats out there already that it is simply a function of which clubs are going to host "long coat only" shows and surveys. I am sure that "somebody" will host a longcoat Sieger Show, and I would imagine that the number of entries the first few times could be staggering. (ka-ching!!!) The more I think about it, the more frightening it is: the money-grubbers are going to come out of the woodwork on this one!! All the folks with coats that have been excluded from both AKC and German-style shows will be seen as plums ripe for the picking. I would not be at all surprised if the entries in the longcoat version of a Sieger Show far outstrips both the USA Sieger Show and the NASS combined as a result.  (ka-ching, ka-ching!!) |
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Longcoats--2010 by wuzzup on 10 June 2009 - 23:06 |
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| Thats what I have been wondering . So many what if's . | |
Longcoats--2010 by SitasMom on 11 June 2009 - 05:06 |
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| it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. Sita is coated out of two stockcoats..........Hero had a brother and sister out of his litter that were coated....... How will it all workout> |
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Longcoats--2010 by 1doggie2 on 13 June 2009 - 15:06 |
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| Most of us that have LC's are spayed or N. | |
Longcoats--2010 by wuzzup on 13 June 2009 - 16:06 |
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| Does any one know what they have been doing with the long coated pups of past that have been born in Germany ? Are they sold to other countries ? With or with out the pink papers ? Or have they been culled ? I am serious in wanting an answer to this question . I am not being facetious or trying to stir the pot .I would just like to know . | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 13 June 2009 - 19:06 |
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| Jeanne, There is at least one LC gsd organization in Germany. There has always been a market for them in Europe, just as ther is in the US. Some people simple like, even prefer, LCs. So, I doubt that they were culled. I know folks who have competed internationally with LCs, prior to the time they were "kicked out." | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by wuzzup on 13 June 2009 - 21:06 |
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| I was afraid when I did not get any answer to the question , I would be having a very sad day at the thought of culled pups just for the coat length . I was thinking that with the invent of the new carrier of this and that gene tests developed in the last ten or so years it may have eliminated some culling . I was holding on to that thought . However I was also muling around thoughts of the worst . Thanks for the answer Mystere . | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 13 June 2009 - 21:06 |
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| Never fear, as long as someone can make a buck off them. No puppies will be culled, certainly not b/c of hair length or color. ¶If the off-colors had enough numbers to have their own organization, shows, trials and surveys in Germany, the SV would recognize them, too!! LOL ¶ The SV and AKC are getting close to playing out "that scene" from "Animal Farm." | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by wuzzup on 13 June 2009 - 22:06 |
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| Thats what I was thinking !! $$ has always been a motivating factor across the globe .. It would have been a big monetary loss for the German breeders to cull all or most of the long coats . I am sure the bad economic times have something to do with the decision going in the long coats favor . | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Sherman-RanchGSD on 14 June 2009 - 22:06 |
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| You show your ignorace Myst... long coats have ALWAYS been part of the breed and were not penalized until a short time ago when some political wild hair got up someones ass and ony then have they been treated as second class. This is with good reason a dissapointment for many and I have to wonder WHY the SV botherd..except to make more money for their organization..NOT to actually do anything for the breed... they do not need seperate classes or groups they are GSDs period and always have been. What a good judge cant read the physical staures on a lsc??... well wouldnt surprise me some are also confused by color issues. What a waste of time they have been fiddling around for this scheme. Debi www.sherman-ranch.us |
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SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Rik on 14 June 2009 - 23:06 |
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| With all due respect, I too feel that it all comes down to money. With the possibility of 20-40% of a litter having to be sold at pet or below prices, the big kennels are missing out on a lot of $. Not to mention that there are probably many top placing dogs who had LC sibilings as good or maybe better conformatition wise. I think it is a good move, because as stated above, they are all GSD. An extra inch or two of hair has absolutely no bearing on character or conformatition. Rik |
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SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 15 June 2009 - 03:06 |
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| Debbie dear, I NEVER said that the coats were NOT part of the breed! Get it straight, I believe my references to stock coats producing LCs and Stock coat/LC siblings makes that clear to any idiot. | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 15 June 2009 - 20:06 |
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| Check out the threads on the GSD League show. They had a class for longcoats and non-standard colors (white, blue and liver?) were shown as well. | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by chickadee on 16 June 2009 - 04:06 |
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| Being a recessive gene in stockcoats, both parents must carry the gene and be bred together to produce long coat pups or a few in a litter? One parent cannot produce long coats bred to a parent that does not carry the gene, both must have the long coat gene to reproduce in a litter one, two, three or whatever? Also, the long coated ones must have the undercoat by SV. Most American long coats do not have the undercoats. This way they can be worked with undercoats and qualify more so by the SV. Otherwise they are not recognized at all by the SV with NO undercoat. That is the way I understand it so far. If you breed two nice parents together of East or West lines, they will produce nice deep pigement and working pups. I know alot of German Breeders get a few long coats in their itters, keeps one and it titles well in Shutzhund only. Some of the best studs abroad carry the gene anyhow. You do not know until you breed a pair and get a couple pups with curly coats.? |
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SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by Mystere on 18 June 2009 - 17:06 |
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| Any ideas as to the response from the AKC, WDA, or USA? | |
SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by fasteddielv on 10 April 2010 - 16:04 |
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| Pulled from the USCA website. Updated USA Breed Show Regulations E-Ballot #2-10 Motion by Tim Burke, seconded by Craig Groh, to approve the updated USA Breed Show Regulations as proposed by the Breed Advisory Committee. BackGround This is an update to add long stock coat classes and for clarifications, grammatical changes, renumbering, and organizational changes. Yes - (19) - Lyle Roetemeyer, Craig Groh, Sara Wallick, Sean O’Kane, Nathaniel Roque, Tim Burke, Al Govednik, Johannes Grewe, Terry Macias, Frank Phillips, Jennifer Acevedo, Pia Blackwell, Arthur Collins, Jeff Govednik, Warren Jones, Dena McGowan, Thom Payne, Mark Scarberry, David Witmer No - (0) Abstain - (0) - M No Response -(1) - Pedro Jimenez Motion carried 3/4/2010 |
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SV Recognition of Longcoats--2010 by hodie on 10 April 2010 - 16:04 |
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| This post quoted here and from the posts above, shows complete lack of understanding of genetics. Yet this person is breeding and constantly offering advice? Laughable. "Why the separate books? What if a "coated" and "mole coat" (too short of hair) are bred, and the pups turn out having perfect stock coats.......? Aren't the coated dogs used to keep stock from becoming too short?" There is, by the way, a DNA test to identify whether the gene for LC is carried. I have seen many long coated dogs who belonged in the gene pool for their correct temperament, health, and structure. I believe that this is, in fact, a good move, although if we really cared about the breed we might not make it so the dogs were in a separate breed book. There is a lot to be said for excluding such dogs from the gene pool simply because of coat length. |
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