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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Bicolor? (137 replies)
by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 15:52 |
| Yes, I see the variation from darkest bicolour to lightest saddle as a line of continuous variation. There's obviously an order of dominance from lightest to darkest and possibly some incomplete dominance of at over a, as there is in aw over a to account for some of the darkening but basically there are modifying genes controlling the balance between dark and light pigment. Pod, it will be interesting to see the research come out. This just isn't how I've seen the patterns appear in practice. There seem to be very definitive characteristics with predictive pattern differences. But there's no doubt that there's also a "coverage" gene also in play and my observations are far from scientific or incredibly widespread. Thanks for the info! |
BlackthornGSD by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 15:54 |
| Nona--isn't that puppy quite a bit older by now? Does he have tan behind his ears? Some puppies you have either know the genetics of the parents or watch how the pup's coloring changes as s/he matures. |
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 16:18 |
| Actually, Blackthorn, his birthdate is Dec 8, 2010..So, NOOOO, he is not quite a bit older, a few days but not quite a bit older.... |
nonacona60 by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 16:36 |
| Looks like a bicolor right now - what colors are his parents? If neither is bicolor has either produced a true bicolor before? If not then unless there is a reason to know for sure if bicolor is possible or not - you will have to wait and see if his toemarks fade (or get darker) or if he develops shading behind his ears/elsewhere (or not). From the pictures though I'd guess he is bicolor. molly |
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 17:25 |
| Here is a little information about Riot's backgrd color..... This is his sire, he is out of sableXblack... Riot's mom is a Bastin Vom Kokeltal daughter, Bastin being a bi-color, and I have no color information on the mom... But Riot's mom is the same color as Riot is now now..No tan around the ears.... The sire has produced solid blacks and bi-colors before....Mom also has produced bi-colors..not sure about solid blacks....  |
by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 17:57 |
| He got the black gene from his dad, and his mom is likely bicolor with a black recessive, which would mean Riot would be a bicolor with a black recessive, like his mom. Or, if you follow Pod's information, he's a black and tan with a black recessive with the bicolor modifiers inherited from his mom. (Something like that...) (Nona, I wasn't being nasty about his age--I thought you'd had that picture as an avatar for a few months now--I guess I misremembered!) |
by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 18:24 |
| My bi bitch changes seasonally. Typically, she has zero markings on her face, has a faint stripe across her chest and just had tan on her legs, but sometimes she gets "eyebrows" and lighter markings around her chest. She produces true bi's, blacks, and sables when bred to a sable. Here is a pup of hers at about 12 weeks, if I remember right. If she (Avasha vom Eisenherz) isn't a true bi, I don't know what is. i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG950093.jpg This is what she looked like as a tiny pup: i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Puppies%20first%20outing%20June%2029/CSC_0201.jpg This is my bitch's face this summer: i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11028.jpg And this is her just yesterday: i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11027.jpg |
Jenni78 by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 19:38 |
| who told you she wasn't a "true" bicolor? hard to mistake the toemarks on her. molly |
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 20:07 |
| BT, No problem about the avatar....Actually I just put that pic up since the weekend...I did have a another pic of a puppy that was dark, but definitely not a bicolor..That pup was from a litter born, Oct 17th..That maybe what you were thinking about...He was thick just like this one.... |
by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 21:39 |
| No one said she wasn't; I was just referring to the pup being a true bicolor in reference to the part about what a dog produces giving insight as to what the dog itself is. That pup is 18mos. old now and so dark she only has some bleeding on her legs. Other than that, she is solid black and dark enough that it's been questioned if she is black w/bleeding instead of bicolor, but she is bicolor- no doubt about it. She has a tan vent and you can see from her puppy pics she's no black. |
by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 21:48 |
| what puppy pics? are you talking about the pup who is getting color dna testing to determine her true color? where are her pictures? |
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 21:51 |
| Regardless of what color she is, she is gorgeous...I do believe I commented that I liked her as a puppy.... As a tiny puppy I would have thought she was a bi-color....Gotta love the tan brows as she got older.....  |
by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 21:56 |
| I am confused I guess. we are talking about nona's puppy? obviously a bicolor and not a black. Or, another puppy? which one? aaaaaaaaaaaaa |
by jaggirl47 on 14 February 2011 - 22:06 |
| Molly, Mine is the pup getting genetic testing. She looked like a total black minus the tan between the toes and 1 or 2 tan hairs around the vent. Now, she looks like a straight up melanistic bi color. She is 7 months old. |
by Red Sable on 14 February 2011 - 22:06 |
 I think she was talking about her pup,( the 12 week old pic ) Avasha. |
Red Sable by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 22:12 |
| Yes, RS is correct! Avasha, the pup I linked to pics of is who I was saying is a bicolor, like her mother, Capri (vom Hagenberg). She doesn't have tan eyebrows, Nona, her mother does (sometimes, lol). I'm not sure if that's more or less confusing now.........lol. |
by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 22:13 |
| And I linked to the wrong pic.......has to be more like 16wks in that pic. |
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 22:17 |
No Jen, its not more confusing, just I didn't read between the lines.....Actually you can't see the eyebrows in the pic from the summer, but the one you took yesterday, they are there....Thats what I meant when I said as she got older, as in older than the summer... |
by Jenni78 on 15 February 2011 - 00:37 |
| Nona, that's the mom, Capri, LOL. She's the one I meant had "seasonal" markings;-) She typically has no markings at all, but fall and winter they come out. See? It IS more confusing;-) |
by eichenluft on 15 February 2011 - 01:44 |
| ok then - that's not the pup that was in question at all. jaggirl, do you have pics of your pup you could share? Normally it's pretty clear if a dog is black with bleeding, or melanistic bicolor just by looking, if the pictures are clear. any pics of the sire who is registered black but may be a bicolor? Maybe his pedigree? Has he produced other bicolors or other colors before? molly |
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