German Shepherd Dog > KENNEL CLUB SUSPEND ALLOCATION OF GSD CC's for 2012 (280 replies)
by jaymesie51 on 06 August 2009 - 14:58
|Why on earth would anyone want to stay with the KC what the hell have they ever done for you apart from take your money Aileen is 100% correct in this |
WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO CUT AND RUN NOW – DON’T LET THEM BULLDOZE/BULLY/BLACKMAIL OR SHAFT US THIS TIME – MAKE THE BREAK FOR THE SAKE OF OUR WONDERFUL BREED. I say to all GSD enthusiasts YOUR BREED NEEDS YOU. stand up and be counted.
Aileen you have put forward an excellent post which should be looked into by all GSD clubs and hopefully the GSD partnership and maybe just maybe they will see that we do not need the money grabbing KC
by Trotters123 on 06 August 2009 - 15:31
|Jaymsie51........... It is my right to want to stay with the KC, it is not your right to question my reasons. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and be respected for it. My original query stands If the proposal, as stated above were to be put into action, is this open just to the German side or everyone. I have the German type but still want to be affiliated with the Kennel Club, enter Kennel Club ran shows and register my puppies with them. How would this work. Would it mean that ALL German stuff no longer be able to register with the KC or is it a personal choice? I fear that 'jerk' and 'knee' come into mind and also 'cutting ones nose off!" Maybe if the double handling was stopped immediately and a copy of ALL the health tests including facts and figues are sent in to the Kennel Club, there may be room for movement. The Double handling can be stopped at All Breed shows, this is an intelligent breed which can pull without being shouted at to do so. We train ours this way so we can show at All breeds shows without causing a distruption to other rings. I think we have to remember that this is Britain and we are entering shows held under Kennel Club rules and regs, so we should abide by these rules. I can see why other breeds do not like us, to be honest we do have a 'we should be treated differently from you' attitude going on!|
by myfanwy on 06 August 2009 - 15:48
I'm sure the KC will still accept your registration and your show entries as I'm quite sure as a business they will not turn away your's or anyone else's money.
I AM IN FULL SUPPORT OF AILEEN'S PROPOSAL
But as stated if you do not feel you wish to support OR participate that is your right and no-one will force you.
Also i'm quite sure the KC is well aware of all the health checks GSD breeders carryout or wish to carryout as stated in their last meeting with the KC.
by Joyce on 06 August 2009 - 15:54
|I agree with Sophie |
Stay and fight the KC on this, it is them that need to change their policies. For the sake of all GSD's.
Both sides of the GSD have to unite and stand together and other breeds also, It is us today it could be them tomorrow.
I agree Jim they have done nothing for our Breed or anyone else's but take our money, but I would want to see the KC back down on this and for them make the changes the breeders want. If we walk away we are making it easy for the KC, giving them what they want.
We have extreme's on both sides that need addressing.
Who will arrange, support, help to set up the new shows??? We have clubs giving up CC's through lack of support under our current system.
Who will be the Chiefs to lead without any hidden agendas.??
Sometimes you are better off with the devil you know.
by Sue B on 06 August 2009 - 15:54
|Please visit the Dog World Website and read its front page article giving us full support as being victimised by the|
KC and featuring the comments of BC Chairman and member of the GSD Partnership Mr John Cullen.
Then please note the 'comments' already written there are from all and sundry but anyone other than a GSD Supporter.
What you all have to realise is that with our Double Handling our exhibitors have to many in other breeds come across
as irresponsible, wreckless, holigans respecting nothing or nobody with our 'We will do what we darn well like attitude, irrespective of the danger or inconvenience to others, not to mention the unfairness it creates to some other exhibitors in the class who dont have the same Double Handling power". Sorry folks, this might not fit in with what you want to hear but only a totally wreckless, irresponsible , holigan will try to deny these facts.
Anyone who really knows me, knows I am not a KC fan and all of us are guilty of Double Handling but theres Double Handling and then theres discreet attracting and there is a difference. As much as I believe the KC were completely out of order with their recent letter, especially its timing but if you had a club with rules and a set of people who came to it who behaved like naughty children all the time and despite how many warnings they still continued to behave like holigans, wouldnt you want to do something about it?
As for Roach backs, I wish people who see these roach backs would understand just exactly how a dog can be posed in different stance and even as was pointed out earlier in this thread the way some people view a roach means that even the best puppy dog on the UK site could be viewed to having a roach back. Furthermore, the KC letter was about Health and Welfare, this is the reason (according to the KC that they changed the wording of some standards ealier this year) would someone please provide me with EVIDENCE as to how a curved back constitutes an UNHEALTHY dog? In other words what evidence have they got that a Roach is in any way detrimental to a dogs health and if they think this why have they not then changed the standards for Greyhounds , Afghans, Whippets, Bedlington Terriers (need I go on?).
NO DOG IS PERFECT, NO DOG EXACTLY FITS THE STANDARD, ALL DOGS HAVE FAULTS, BUT ALL DOGS ARE NOT NECESSARILY UNHEALTHY, ESPECIALLY NOT THOSE BRED BY GSD PEOPLE WITH ALL THEIR BREED SURVEY HEALTH CHECKS IN PLACE. THEY ARE FAR HEALTHIER THAN THE ONES THE KC ARE HAPPY TO REGISTER AS LONG AS IT HAS (as JIM H so brilliantly put it) A PULSE. !!
I can see you have put a Great Deal of time and thought into your plan Aileen and commend you for it and far be it from me to rain on your parade but if I could just tug a little on your reigns and suggest that before you all go rushing to support a KC split, remember the showing fraternity are but a small section of the GSD Community and are you certain that WHERE YOU LEAD, ALL WILL FOLLOW??!! You only have to look to those in our midst that are more than happy to frequent the GENERAL CHAMP SHOWS UNDER ALL ROUNDERS, who they do VERY WELL UNDER THANKYOU !! Are you sure Aileen the likes of these will be behind you when you hold up your banner and walk to the Split Door? I am happy whichever way we are forced to go, but for the sake of our breed PLEASE ALL OF YOU THINK BEFORE YOU JUMP TO QUICKLY THROUGH WHAT COULD TURN OUT TO BE THE WRONG DOOR. Please think also, that this may be precisely what some want us to do? I'm a little stubborn that way, not too sure I want to roll over that easily to give someone else exactly what they want. Dont want to get into b
by Sue B on 06 August 2009 - 15:58
|Continued from previous post|
Though definately dont want to get into bed with them either Sophie, sorry. Still love you though..l
All the best
by patrick on 06 August 2009 - 17:11
|Sue, an excellent post! Remember the K.C. started this ball rolling, and have then stood back to watch and wait. At the end of the day we may not have a choice, but to split. If they stick with their letter, and don't budge, 2012 will take care of it's self. You may ask, is this a game of Poker where skill, tactics, bluff, timing, and determination are required. A cool approach is needed, we need to understand their game plan, to anticipate their next move, be prepared, and have the right hand of cards. There is a big pot at stake, so lets not panic into throwing in our hand. If it comes to that, lets do it in our time, and when it suits us. Bill Owen.|
by Sophie on 06 August 2009 - 17:38
|Sueb I personally don't want to get into bed so too speak BUT we may be forced to do so. As you So rightly said if we had a club of people acting like naughty children who totally ignored all the rules you would simply give them an ASBO. This is just what the KC have now done in their own fashion. As I said before we have had others chipping away at the KC going on about those Germanic types & how bad they behave - well it is also these pople that now are feeling the hardship as well. |
So if you want to rock the boat make sure you are wearing a lifebelt! Other wise you may well go down with the ship
So if we are off to hell and so are they! hence my call for NO SPLIT IN THE BREED. As Joyce has said you sometimes are better with the devil you know than the one you don't.
We actually may get to consider one another's (omg I'm off in a fanasty world again) point of view & IF we have the health & well being of our breed then surely we should come together and talk. Each may not like what the other has to say but if it is constructive criticism and not an all out attack then the dogs will benefit. So my pray each night is ' I try to be good for I know that I should that's my prayer at the end of the day' and the remaining part of my pray is that the proposal put before the Breed Council from West Yorkshire re- the Accredited Breeder scheme does hit the right mark at the KC. This is the best thing that has so far been put forward. It's not Alice in wonderland. Sometimes sitting and waiting can be the worst part BUT it should be done.
I just find it so disgracefull that we have been penalised and not the Pekingese who are unable to breath correctly - why were their tickets not stopped?
by hamza166 on 06 August 2009 - 18:56
|I say that we just split away from the kennel club. One reason is below:|
Here is a proper german shepherd, as it should be:
Below is what the kennel club has changed the german shephrd to with it's new standard, and what they want to get hold of:
They are trying to get us to this:
Would you in 2010, like to think of a gsd, and see this? No hip scores, weak back, over angulated.
Below is a puppy. Poeple think of gsd puppies, as cute, well when you see this, you will feel, disgraced at the kennel club:
Below is an american german shepherd gaiting:
Would you wish for your german shepherd to walk and run like this? Not able to jump, or run fast, or do most things a pet dog would want to do?
I SAY SPLIT AWAY
by bazza on 06 August 2009 - 19:12
|I say shut your stupid mouth!!!!! Are you not from Pakistan? Most of the dogs you have posted are AMERICAN, what the hell have they to do with this thread? You have proved you can post pictures, so give it a rest, PLEASE!!!!! Could someone please give this idiot some duck tape for his mouth. Stay out of something you just do not have a clue about!!!!!!!!!!!!|
by myfanwy on 06 August 2009 - 19:22
Maybe you don't know it, but the is a UK problem and can you PLEASE!!! stop trying to muddy the water and contaminate this thread with something that is another problem.
we are trying to discuss the loss of Challenge Certificates in 2012
Not splitting the breed.that is another subject, If you wish to continue it start another thread
by jaymesie51 on 06 August 2009 - 20:03
|Can i ask you all if we sit back and wait to see if the KC will back down on this (which they will not imo) then in 2012 when we have no shows to go to what then i can tell you we either breed alsatians or leave the breed or move to germany that will be our choices we must put things in place over the next year so if they dont back down then at least we will be in a position to go our own way.|
by hamza166 on 06 August 2009 - 20:41
|I do live in England. I am going to say this clearly:|
I LIVE IN ENGLAND, NOT PAKISTAN
I may have been born in Pakistan, and yes i do have relatives which live there, and i might go there for a visit, every 2-3 years, but i live in England, and love the German showline gsd. I love videx gsd and their fabolous dogs. Once i saw all this, and the changing of the breed, i was afarid, and disgraced at by the kennel club.
I do wish to continue splitting the breed. I acutally might start another thread.
by funky munky on 06 August 2009 - 21:06
|Jim i agree, can't see the KC backing down. Liz|
by patrick on 06 August 2009 - 21:20
|Hamaz666, You think you have convinced most on this thread you are a youth from Pakistan!!!!! PLEASE!!! stop trying to bull shit intelligent people, get of this thread with this stupid track and foto's, I believe the TELLY TUBBIES have a website that should suit you're intellect. "Now SOD OFF" Bill Owen.|
by Sue B on 06 August 2009 - 22:26
Hamza, I dont want to dampen your enthusiasm but I do implore you to PLEASE KEEP OUT OF THIS THREAD!! We are all very much aware of what different types of dogs look like so continually posting photo's and humming the same Mantra is not a help but a hindrance. These are VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES we are trying to discuss here, all with a history that you know absolutely nothing about and you are far too young to understand the Politics of it all. So please stop posting here, read and learn but remember there are times when children should be seen and not heard and this is one of them. Please start your own thread and keep posting all your photo's to that then those who want to discuss your issues can join you there, or not, as the case may be. Thankyou in anticipation of your co-operation. Sue
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 23:43
|Hi, to answer a previous question about my posting - any NEW REGISTRATION SCHEME etc would be open to ALL GSD owners, breeders and exhibitors who wish to make use of the service and to use the health schemes, so this system would sort the wheat from the chaff. Let the chaff stay with the Kennel Club and hell mend them. There would have to be some kind of Charter stating that anyone who registers with the new system will have to agree to health test any animals when they come of age to do so. |
Most of us know that the biggest problems with the KC is the double handling and of course the "in crowd" at the KC. However, I feel we need to make solid plans for the future should things go belly up. There are Clubs out there who had major shows in 2012, lets hear from them, how the hell can any of them plan for 2012 when they are put in this situation. Are the KC now going to refuse the approval of judges from abroad for that year as well, what is the point in them coming here to the UK to judge Open Shows with no CCs. Their tactics, if they get away with this will see Clubs fold and people leave the breed, THEY HAVE TO BE STOPPED by whatever means it takes.
I also think they have a legal obligation to the people who keep them in a job and they must be breaking the law as a Limited Company to discriminate against ONE SINGLE BREED. They have managed to be able to work with the Cavalier people and listen to them, they have made changes to their ways and the KC has listened to them. So it looks like we are being singled out for the chop for one thing that is not detrimental to the health of our Breed, double handling - this is their Agenda and we all know it.
I say to you all - THE KENNEL CLUB HAS ALLOWED ONE OF ITS RULES TO BE BROKEN FOR MANY MANY YEARS |(DOUBLE HANDLING) and as it has allowed this rule to be broken for this long how can it now go backwards and now try and enforce a rule that has not been adhered to for years - THE KC has on many occasions turned a blind eye to this so called problem and done nothing about it. They have had ample opportunity over all those years to KENNEL CLUB individuals, clubs and societies but they don't do it - WHY - because FIELD OFFICERS CAN ONLY OBSERVE at shows they cannot enforce the Rules of their employers - HOW EFFICIENT IS THIS - A CLUB/LIMITED COMPANY that allows it rules to be broken and then tries to back track - NO CHANCE.
Personally I would not care if a dog became a Champion via the KC or via an independent Club, either way it is a champion in the eyes of the Breed and that is all that matters - BUT THE PUBLIC NEED TO KNOW what the KC is doing and if this takes bombarding them with leaflets and press releases so be it. MORE IMPORTANTLY however is that above and beyond showing the health of the dogs is paramount to any awards any dog receives and the KC should listen to what it is being told, however they have selective deafness. They can see from all THEIR RECORDS, who takes the health of their dogs seriously and who does not, they are in a perfect situation to see that from the Registrations and Breed Supplement information, yet they refuse to implement the Health Schemes handed to them on a plate by OUR BREED.
I am sure we have some lawyers in our midst who can tell us what the law is about Limited Companies and surely if we pay good money to this Club to REGISTER LITTERS, TRANSFER OWNERSHIPS, PAY YEARLY FOR AFFIXES for our animals and kennels, then we MUST BE SHAREHOLDERS in some distant form or other - lawyers would know what the legalities are in this case????
We have a hard road ahead and what I really wanted to do was put down on paper what WILL NEED TO BE DONE to be able to make the break shou
by jaymesie51 on 07 August 2009 - 08:04
|Hi sue you say their is much talking and planning going on about the 2012 situation and this is not the place to air these plans then how are the rank and file supposed to know what is taking place i hope we are not getting rid of one closed shop just to open another,, their have been a lot of views expressed here on this forum about the situation we find our selves in but how are we to know just what is being done if anything at all, an e-mail to those who have e-mail addresses or a letter in the post or phone call to those that dont have access to e-mail would be a start, this is not something that should be for those and such as those this affects us all (including the other side they just dont realise it yet) for us all to sing from the same hymn sheet we need to know what that hymn sheet is|
by hamza166 on 07 August 2009 - 11:07
I see i am not wanted. But once again
I AM NOT LYING, I LIVE IN ENGLAND.
by Mackenzie on 07 August 2009 - 11:09
|I would like to make a comment on the matter of the KC being a Limited Company. As such there will be Shareholders and one must assume that they will receive Dividends as Shareholders.|
It may be that a list of Shareholders can be obtained and, if so, then perhaps the GSD Partnership can produce a carefully worded statement setting out the breed position, it's health issues and it's relationship with the KC. This Statement Can then be lobbied to each Shareholder individually to inform them of what the KC are doing in their names. This approach has been successful when used against, for example, investment companies who were investing in Tobacco, Arms, Pharmaceuticals.
Just a thought