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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > KENNEL CLUB SUSPEND ALLOCATION OF GSD CC's for 2012 (280 replies)
by EgyptianQueen on 05 August 2009 - 23:14 |
| What are you blathering on about now DP????????????? EQ |
by myfanwy on 05 August 2009 - 23:15 |
To the last few post, you seem to be getting into the usual slanging match and are doing exactly what the KC want. regarding hip scores I have looked at the KC web site hip scores and can see most of the winning dogs from the alsatianist have been hip score P.S I am not an alsatianist and never will be but I believe in being as factual as possible |
myfanwy by EgyptianQueen on 05 August 2009 - 23:19 |
| Thank you Myfanwy - that was my point too EQ |
by Videx on 05 August 2009 - 23:23 |
| Bill, understand this the Alsatianists & the so called "Middle of the Road GSD" - have been spending much of there time in recent years, influencing the Kennel Club at every opportunity, while dressed in the shirt & tie, and behaving impeccably at KC Shows, especially General Championship Shows, AGAINST THE CORRECT GERMANIC GSD. THIS IS ABOUT "IMAGE" of the owners, handlers, exhibitors, and their behavior, NOT THE "SUBSTANCE OF OUR BREED" They know they don't have to compete against us in the Show Ring, They know exactly who to target to make changes in our breed within the UK. We need to take them on, head on, with determination. |
Videx by Wildmoor on 05 August 2009 - 23:34 |
| by myfanwy on 05 August 2009 - 23:08 myfanwy Stated To the last few post, you seem to be getting into the usual slanging match and are doing exactly what the KC want. regarding hip scores I have looked at the KC web site hip scores and can see most of the winning dogs from the alsatianist have been hip score P.S I am not an alsatianist and never will be but I believe in being as factual as possible There are equally as many if not more that havent been scored those that have range from 11-41 and only one elbow scored. Re the KC surely as a Private Ltd Company (Company No. 04068243) under UK law it sets its own rules and regulations for members and how they act and what services they offer to a third party ie us as paying customers, so there is no reason what so ever as why they can not enforce compulsory tests for sire/dam. |
by bazza on 06 August 2009 - 06:23 |
| I find HAMZA166's comments laughable when you have a look at the dog he is offering at stud, JAIN( user comments)!!!!! False pedigree, false hip grade, please try and not comment on a subject you clearly no nothing about.... THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG. I cringe to see what will come out your mouth next, please stop. |
by myfanwy on 06 August 2009 - 07:09 |
| Hi windmoor, The point I was making is that one should not make comments that cannot be proved and that if anyone wishes to make further comment they should start a new thread. And also if they wish to they can find out who has been hip scored and there scores from th KC hip scores web site. |
by Trotters123 on 06 August 2009 - 07:10 |
| Patricks comment is 100% correct. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND! I think until this mess with the Kennel Club is sorted out, we all do have to work together, regardless of the differences in the types and opinions. Once it is back to normal, then fine.....get back to inbreed fighting. We are just playing into the KC's hands with all this nonsense. |
by missbeeb on 06 August 2009 - 08:27 |
Exactly right... stop this silly bickering and stop posting pictures / links of other peoples dogs and then slating them, it's a hideous practice and it serves no real purpose! Pam, thank you... I didn't know it was a Ltd Company! |
missbeeb by Trotters123 on 06 August 2009 - 10:05 |
| The Kennel Club is a business, so treat it like one. We are consumers and a paying for a service which is now under threat with a spurious reason hiding a hidden agenda. I don't know if this will work, but why not give it a try. The Rt Hon Lord MANDELSON, DEPARTMENT FOR BUSINESS, ENTERPRISE AND REGULATORY REFORM 1 Victoria Street London SW1H 0ET Tel: 020 7215 5000 Website: www.berr.gov.uk Generic Email format: firstname.surname@berr.gsi.gov.uk The Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR) is the voice of business in Government, leading work to create the conditions for business success, through competitive and flexible markets that create value for business, consumers and employees; and working across Government and the regions to raise levels of productivity. Parliamentary Unit: Tel: 020 7215 6658 Fax: 020 7799 1531 Email: mpst.parly@berr.gsi.gov.uk Correspondence Section: Tel: 020 7215 1374 Fax: 020 7215 5329 Email: berr.correspondence@berr.gsi.gov.uk Just remember that the Kennel Club is a monopoly which is illegal in Britain, try and use that path. It is obvious that the Kennel Club are using the Health issues as an excuse, 'to be seen to be doing something' What is one of the most recognised breeds? The shepherd! What will get the KC back into a good public light? By seeing to be bringing the Shepherds into line! What are they most pissed off with the Shepherd people doing? Double handling! Unfortunately the public doesn't know what this is, so for plain speak....they attack the Health issue which is on everyones minds at the moment. The KC have rules and regs about double handling and still the Shepherd fraternity ignore these. Flaunting the Kennel Club rules...so how else are they going to react. They are sick and tired about asking, pleading with the Shepherd fraternity to stop this, and still it goes on. The fiasco at Border Union was the last straw. However I do not agree with this under handed move by the Kennel Club, but I can see why they have done it. I do not know if contacting the MP regarding this matter will make any difference, but it is better than just shouting about it on here and getting into arguements with people who are in exactly the same boat. Maybe contacting ALL the newspapers, local and national regarding this subject. No point the Dog papers as most of the other breeds hate the Shepherd people anyway and would be happy to see the back of us, so the Dog papers are preaching to the converted. Time to educate the public. They are the ones with the voice, their buying powers and their sentimentalities. I say somewhere on this board a list of ALL the health related issues which the Shepherd fraternity has been involved with being started. Give that to the papers along with the KC ABS list just to show the differences. Someone who is better than me will think of a better plan of defense...note I said defense NOT attack....as this is the attitude that the KC are sick of. I hope that we can all pull together, Alsation & German and put aside the petty differences within the breed to solve this. If it goes through it will hurt EVERYONE within the breed, not just one type.....EVERYONE!!! |
by linedancer 13 on 06 August 2009 - 10:56 |
| I agree with Patric, Which ever side of the fence we are on we are all very passionate about this wonderful breed of ours,and not every body can be right all of the time and something has to be done but WHAT that is the question. Both sides are so far apart we have to find some common groud put a line in the sand and say this is where we start ,BUT WHERE again the big question. The bred is suffering badly and soon we won't have a breed to even worry about. Linedancer |
by Sophie on 06 August 2009 - 13:20 |
| I have been trying to look for a positive in all of this - for when the letter from the K.C arrived all I saw was doom & gloom for the breed. Well I have found the positive. For all the years that some people have been chipping away at the K.C. about them Germanic Types and what they have & havn't done. All I can say now is that whole heartily I do NOT want there to be a split in the breed on absolutly NO account must it happen. Now it is pay back time for all that chipping. A saying springs to mind NOW that ALL the CC's have been removed - HOISTED BY YOUR OWN PETARD :- dictionary meaning:- Injured by the device that you intended to use to injure others. To quote Patrick: Sometimes it's useful to get into bed together to resolve a problem. The bed sheets would be so tight that they can't move an inch without me - !!!!! Where you go I go. Via la difference. |
Sophie by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 13:25 |
| Hi all, I have written out a few of my own thoughts and ideas and have no doubt I will be ripped to shreds for it, but I will add my 2 pence worth. It has taken me a wee while to get a piece together. After reading all this I am at a loss as to what we do now - however I do have some Government contacts in Scotland and in particular a GSD owning Councillor who did his very best recently when we had an abuse issue in Scotland. I will contac thim on all of this and ask him to read these threads, see if he can do a bit to help. At the end of the day we may need to SPLIT to resolve this, it would be a real pity for a lot of people, but I can see no way out of this mess. THE KENNEL CLUB are a disgrace and I have no qualms about going to my local papers to let the public know what they are doing to us, it just takes time to get the ball rolling and everyone who feels the same does a little bit then it is amazing how quickly the ball will roll. I will post my ideas in a few pieces as it is so long. Regarding Border Union Show, I was there and what happened was DISGRACEFUL - a Doberman Judge, in the middle of judging a Class, approached our ring and stewards, said whatever, was told in no uncertain terms to go back to her ring, which she did and went into her ring with her hands in the air and the doberman owners cheered her - VERY PROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOUR AS A JUDGE - NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is the disgrace, not us, nearly all enxhibitors were very quiet for a change as most there know the score at ALL BREED SHOWS and MOST show respect for other breeds, but we obviously have a few that have no respect FOR ANYTHING so they are the culprits. PENALISE INDIVIDUALS for their behaviour and you will see a change. I personally ADVOCATE DOUBLE HANDLING - go on name one sport in the world you don't get to cheer at - THEY EVEN CHEER AT CRICKET AND TENNIS these days, which was NO NO in the past, but change came to them, WHY NOT US???? I am ready to be corrected on my ideas and as long as you keep it constructive I am happy to be chatted with, but no slagged or abused for having opinions. I agree with Bill Owen and Paul Rattigan - these 2 men are the mediators here - WHY NOT USE THEM? Aileen |
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 13:33 |
| After all I have read on here I personally support “A COMPLETE BREAKAWAY FROM THE KENNEL CLUB WITH THIS TO TAKE EFFECT ON 1ST JANUARY 2012”. However, not in any way being an expert in all fields concerning a breakaway, I would still like to put forward my opinions and suggestions that may go some way to promoting this issue. Many ideas relating to a future breakaway have been mentioned and are basic requirements for a new GSD Registration System in the UK. I have highlighted some of the most important issues before us. I would be happy to forward these IDEAS to all Clubs/Exhibitors/Breeders etc who are interested and who would consider backing this breakaway – these are by no means comprehensive and I understand there will be many more ideas put forward in the coming weeks and months ahead. The West Yorks GSD Club has already put forward many valid points that should also be applied to a NEW GSD REGISTRATION SCHEME IN THE UK and I fully support their suggestions. The Ultimatum by the KC has OPENED THE DOOR for us and gives OUR BREED (the Breed belongs to the owners/breeders/exhibitors and keepers of GSDs in the UK – NOT THE KENNEL CLUB) 3 years to implement the following issues and take action on them so that we are prepared to change over when the time comes – 1. ALL BREED CLUBS in the UNITED KINGDOM - whose Committees & Members advocate a Complete Breakaway should call EMERGENCY EXTRA ORDINARY GENERAL MEETINGS as soon as is possible to legitimately BALLOT all Members of their Clubs on the decision to make a Complete Breakaway from the Kennel Club by the time as above. 2. At these Meetings the following issues can be discussed and perhaps an Information Sheet containing these issues be distributed to the Members of all of the participating Clubs prior to the Meeting so as to prevent long drawn out discussions as we all know happens at these Meetings. 3. FIRST AND FOREMOST (a) We must find a Registration Service suitable to our Breed and at a more reasonable cost than is the case at the present time with the Kennel Club – a Company similar to Fosse Data Systems (not saying it has to be them as they work with the KC already) who have the facilities to set up this Registration Scheme – HOWEVER any sensible Company Owner will realise that the 2nd largest Breed in the UK is a profitable business – as the Kennel Club has already proved. A deal could be arranged in the proper business manner with the approved Company to charge say a nominal Fee of just £1.00 per dog to register ALL EXISTING GSDs already registered with the KC at the present time and up until a cutoff date to be decided by the new Governing Body (see below). Exhibitors, owners & breeders to be responsible for transferring their dogs/stock over to the new System. This small fee would generate thousands upon thousands of pounds for the New Scheme. Transfers of ownership and Affix changes etc etc to be changed as and when the scheme is up and running efficiently with appropriate prices for these services. |
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 13:35 |
| PART II From an appointed date, say 6 months (July 2011) before the launch of the New Scheme in January 2012 exhibitors/breeders and owners could start registering existing stock plus any new additions to their kennels or in their ownership from that date forward and any litters etc. (b) This Registration Service to include the implementation of a GSD ACCREDITED BREEDER SCHEME which incorporates the 2-Tier Registration System with Pedigrees to match this Tiering System, as in the systems that has been suggested many times before – see West Yorks proposals. Decisions on Pedigrees reference colours and content to be discussed at a later date once the Service is in place. 4. ESTABLISHMENT OF A GOVERNING BODY (a) Once 1, 2 and 3 above are taking place then all Clubs involves need to created A GOVERNING BODY to take the plans forward and perhaps this Body could be called “THE UNITED GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG CLUB UK” (only an example – someone may come up with an appropriate name) incorporating all 4 countries of the UK, the Constitution of which has to include all the basic Health Standards in use at the present time with clauses allowing additional health schemes to be added to this in the future. (b) ALL BODIES, who support these plans must agree in writing to join the new GOVERNING BODY and by doing so must agree that a NEW GSD BREED COUNCIL be started for the purpose of putting in place all the available HEALTH ISSUES that are necessary to move our Breed forward into the 21st Century. (c) All the Health Issues CAN BE undertaken separately from the Kennel Club, NOT ONE PERSON REQUIRES THEIR PERMISSION to use the Schemes in place and should the BVA NOT support our plans, which I very much doubt when income is at stake, then we can always set up a system in this Country with the help and guidance of the WUSV on a similar par with Germany or any other Country the Governing Body (Member Clubs) feels appropriate – Penn Hip as an example comes to mind. Another example – the Haemophilia Testing is now done by a Company (Iddex Laboratories) and no longer by an individual, therefore these companies are not going to turn down good money that they are already receiving due to outdated attitudes of the Kennel Club. 5. Once there is a Governing Body in place – decisions can be made on the following:- (a) Costs of Registration (Puppies and Adults/Transfers/Imports/Affixes & maintenance of Affixes etc – see 3 (a) above for suggestions). (b) Adopting the CORRECT BREED STANDARD – THE WORLD STANDARD in accordance with the Country of Origin of our Breed. (c) Removal of the word “ALSATIAN” from the name. (d) The Basic Health requirements to move from Tier I to Tier II in the system. |
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 13:36 |
| PART III (e) What kind of Awards can be implemented to make up a Champion and how many Awards does a dog/bitch require to make the grade. Stud Book Database created along with a Champion Database. (f) All the existing Breed Shows CAN still be held WITHOUT THE KC LICENCE, as basically most are held on Council or Privately owned ground and the owners or Councils really only look to being paid the Fee for the let of such ground and that the Clubs have appropriate Public Liability Insurance Cover – NO MORE KC FIELD OFFICERS at Shows. Rules can be set down to be used in case of any misdemeanors at Shows and dealt with directly by the Governing Body. (g) Insurance Companies will be happy to issue Policies to Clubs whether with the KC or not, as the bottomline issues are ALL ABOUT MONEY and they will not want to lose money they have previously had in their coffers 6. RUNNING THE NEW SCHEME (a) Appointing a Chairman/Vice Chairman/Secretary and Committee of the new Governing Body – going by the posts on this Database I would be happy to propose Paul Rattigan and Bill Owen to start the ball rolling?????? – but there are many out there capable and knowledgeable to do these jobs honestly and without prejudice. (b) Setting up a New Breed Council. (c) Getting a Database up and running. (d) Setting Dates for changeover from the Kennel Club. (e) Organising a “FAIR” Show Rota System that is more suitable and conducive to showing GSDs in the UK and which benefits all 4 countries, not just one country, as is the situation at the present time. No longer any need to go to All Breed Shows to be abused by other breeds and the Committees of those Clubs. Put your money to the Breed itself and not into the coffers of the large Canine Clubs. (f) There will be Many Many other issues that others may bring up and that I have probably missed as I am not as I said an expert in all of these issues. OTHER SUGGESTIONS The main Office of the Governing Body to be in England with satellite Branch Offices (albeit in home environments) in Scotland, Ireland and Wales, where the registration data from each country would be collected, collated and send on to the Main Office monthly or quarterly, whichever is the most acceptable timescale. |
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 06 August 2009 - 13:37 |
| PART IV I would personally volunteer to provide a Secretarial service in Scotland initially to get the satellite Branch Office up and running. The GSD National Magazine is the perfect medium for publishing the data for the new Service and this addition to the magazine would add more information on a monthly basis to its readers on registrations and health scheme information – this would in fact become GSD NATIONAL MAGAZINE/GSD BREED SUPPLEMENT as well as a forum for articles and letters etc. making this medium an even more important publication as it is purchased worldwide. There will be many more ideas and issues to deal with, but in my opinion if we start work NOW to implement a new Registration Scheme, Governing Body etc etc we can be ready to serve the Kennel Club before January 2012 with a P45 from the GSD Fraternity in the UK and I hope they choke on it when it arrives. WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO CUT AND RUN NOW – DON’T LET THEM BULLDOZE/BULLY/BLACKMAIL OR SHAFT US THIS TIME – MAKE THE BREAK FOR THE SAKE OF OUR WONDERFUL BREED. |
by Trotters123 on 06 August 2009 - 13:46 |
| What a well thought out and greatly put together post Aileen However, I for one would hate to see a split. Although I do not like what the Kennel Club has become, I do not want to breakaway from the Kennel Club. If say your proposal was put into action, is this open just to the German side or everyone. I have the German type but still want to be affiliated with the Kennel Club, enter Kennel Club ran shows and register my puppies with them. How would this work. Would it mean that ALL German stuff no longer be able to register with the KC or is it a personal choice? I think Sophie nailed it on the head really in her post. For years the Kennel Club has had nothing but nit picking from certain GSD people and they are now at the end of their tether. For all the other breeds which have many more health issues and do nothing about it, do you see them creating a fuss with the Kennel Club? No! They keep quiet and play along, so they do not get picked on or made and example of. I am not agreeing with that attitude, but it seems that if one keeps their face shut and just goes with the flow (whatever the flavour of the month is) then everything is fine and dandy.....on the surface but obviously underneath their are many many dogs with health issues and they are being shown and bred from. I have written to 6 local papers and 2 Nationals, I have also contacted 2 area MP's in the hope that they may be able to shed some light legally on this matter. As mentioned earlier, The Kennel Club is a business and a LTD one at that, so they do have an obligation to its customers......mainly US! |
by funky munky on 06 August 2009 - 13:47 |
| I applaud you Aileen, well done and an excellent post. I totally agree with your very last sentence. Liz |
funky munky by missbeeb on 06 August 2009 - 14:18 |
Well... I offer my services (secretarial) free of charge of course, if required... just say the word. |
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