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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > undescended testicle (24 replies)
undescended testicle by shepherdpal on 13 July 2009 - 23:26 |
| Benny is 13 weeks today and goes to the vet tomorrow for histhird round of shots, My daughters friend who is studying to be a vet tech informed me yesterday that he has an undescenced testicle. My last GSD from the same breeder was also cryptorchid with two undescended testicles, My daughters " know it all" friend said this is a bad breeder, I do not agree because she has beautiful dogs, many still healthy at ages 14 and 15. They have won many awards in Conformation and Obedience as well as CGC and are working in Shutzund and other areas. I know that if Benny has an undescended testicle he should be neutered to lower the risk of cancer. I had no intention on breeding him anyway. but my question is when is the best time, With Eli my last GSD the vet recommended nuetering at 6 months so we did and Eli never seemd to completely go through puberty. He never learned to lift his leg and even though raised in a noisy house with 4 teenagers he would get scared and climb in my lap when someone would use a power tool, He let much smaller dogs dominate him. He was very loving, stayed by my side during cancer and died suddenly in his sleep last May at two months shy of 9. I went back up to the same breeder because she still has Eli's mother who is 15 and one of his sisters. I fell in love with Benny whose great grandmother was Eli's grandma. My question is how common is crytorchidsim and if I had waited later, until he was a year old would it have made a difference for Eli in his temperament? My son says he likely had a heart attack or stroke because he had a 100 lb. nine year old body but was always stressing like a puppy, jumping around and getting excited like a puppy when he saw his leash etc. I want to neuter Benny at the best possible age |
shepherdpal by Haughmill on 13 July 2009 - 23:36 |
in my megre experience, I have found that unless you know if there is 'one' there high up you will not know if it will cause any problems late on. |
Haughmill by Peggy on 14 July 2009 - 10:36 |
| There is every chance it could still come down at that age. What sort of resposnible breeder uses a dog at stud with only one ball !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You really are unreal My god i hope that some of you potential puppy customers have just read your reply, beggers belief |
by funky munky on 14 July 2009 - 11:51 |
| Peggy totally agree with you. I cannot believe she has the nerve to advise anyone about gsd's. Just look up all the threads on this kennel, unreal is correct. Liz |
funky munky by shepherdpal on 14 July 2009 - 14:10 |
If I read Haughmills reply correctly the dog she bred with one testicle was normal but needed the other testicle amputated because of an accident . This would not cause any bad genetics to be passed on.Anyway I am definiterly going to neuter Benny and was planning too even if he had both as I am not a breeder, ( just a GSD lover),. I am just asking is there is a difference in the adult dogs maturity and temperament depending onb wjhether they are neutered at 6 months, 1 year or later. Thanks. Bennys breede does not believe even males who are not to be bred should be neutered and my vey says 6 months so it is confusing. |
by SitasMom on 14 July 2009 - 17:11 |
| I had a boy years ago who only had one, ( had to have one amputated as he almost ripped it off when a youngster) and he sired 2 litters. the dog HAD 2 balls, one was amputated due to injury........what is wrong with this??? |
by funky munky on 14 July 2009 - 17:52 |
| She tells soooo many lies who knows if the dog had one amputated or not, would not believe a word that came out her mouth. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, PLEASE!!!! That is all i will say on this matter, but before you defend anything she has to say check her out. A lot has been deleted but you will find some. Liz |
by Silbersee on 14 July 2009 - 18:39 |
| shepherdpal, I don't think that your breeder is bad but I do have to question anybody who sells a male puppy without letting the future owner know if both testicles are descended or not. We sell males for pet prices with limited registration if the testicle is not descended by 10 to 12 weeks. We make the buyer aware of it and give them the option to get their deposit back or opt for another puppy if available. As to neutering them: An undescended testicle can turn cancerous in middle age, due to the body temperature and the cell changes. But it is not necessary to neuter them earlier than other males with descended ones. They too should not be neutered too early, so they can go through puberty and become an adult first. Years ago, the now deceased East German judge and Körmeister Werner Dalm told me about a GDR study of the inheritance of cryptorchism and it is found that it is passed on very easily. Further, males whose own testicle descended late (between 8 to 12 weeks) were many times more likely to pass this condition on. So, to me all this effort of massaging testicles down, stitching it in place (so the ring closes with the testicle in the scrotum) and/or hormone injections are just masquarading this problem. Not worth it! Chris |
Silbersee by GSDPACK on 14 July 2009 - 19:23 |
| OK I ave never had a dog with testicle problems. I would look into it since this is second dog from the same breeder that has testicle issues.... Another thing is, neutering a dog at 6 mos (if good genetics) should never alter behavior as you described it.. that is either poor genetics or undersocialization (sp). One of my klients fixed their male at the age of 6 mos at the advice of the vet... i tell you what I almost died that day. They did not know and trusted their vet. nice clueless people. This dog has no issues with anything. Genetics would not allow him that and th socialization was done properly. Good luck. I would consult this with couple vets and still fix him at the age of one or so. |
GSDPACK by Silbersee on 14 July 2009 - 19:36 |
| GSDPack, the issue is not behavior. It is maturity! It has to do with hormone levels! When males are neutered too early they will not develop the typical male characteristics. They will usually be long legged and thin. The head might not be as pronounced etc. And yes, it can or cannot influence certain character traits. Just look at the difference in horses between a stallion and a gelding. Somebody we ride with had major temperament issues in a horse who was left intact for his first 5 years of life. I am in the office right now, but will look it up tonight. There was a vet study done on that subject in dogs! Chris |
by GSDPACK on 14 July 2009 - 21:00 |
| Silbersee I would love to read that. It still looks a bit too much for castration. 6 mos old dog is not developed but being afraid of noises!? Those seem to be environmental issues more than enything. Pups go through fear stage.. mine is in one right know, she hears something and she'll hide behind it. The study shows that hormone level needs to be there to overcome this properly? Anyway as I wrote before. I would like to read it. Another thing. a lot of pet dogs get fixed even earlier and they are just fine.. how is that?! I am just wondering. Thanks |
by starrchar on 14 July 2009 - 23:42 |
| Shepherdpal, I was looking into purchasing a 10 month old male dog with undescended testicles, so I did quite a bit of research. Of course opinions vary somewhat, but here is what I found out: Basically the dog should be neutered around 18 months of age. I spoke to my vet about the actual surgery and he said the surgery typically is quite simple, although sometimes the testicle(s) is up very high and that can make it more difficult. At worst, it is no more involved than a spay surgery. If you start to notice negative behavioral changes in the dog, you should have it examined by a vet because on occasion, although rare, the undescended testicle can start to cause the dog pain. Cryptorcidism is genetic, so it is recomended that dogs who produce pups with cryptorcidism should no longer be bred. I didn't get the pup with the undescended testicles because of personal health issues in my family that got a lot worse shortly after I started looking into purchasing him. I hope this helps. The best, Char |
starrchar by Silbersee on 14 July 2009 - 23:56 |
| GSDPack, admittedly, I overread the mention of the 6 month old and up with noise issues. Of course, that is genetics and environmental and has nothing to do with neutering at an early age. I went through the health archives of our GSDWorld board and reread some old threads regarding this issue. It was mentioned that a study on military dogs was conducted and found that the only thing that is influenced with early neutering and spaying is anything related to the sex drive. It does not interfere with working abilities. But I bet (and this is my private opinion) that some dominance issues can be avoided - due to eliminating the sex drive. Anyway, here are a couple of useful links to read through, as promised: www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf and more thouroughly because each reference in blue is a hyperlink to the vet research (this is what I was looking for): www.thensome.com/neutering.htm Happy reading if you do not get too tired and bored, lol. P.S. A breeder on our forum mentioned that she has it in her contract that no male is to be neutered before 18 to 24 months of age, which in my opinion is far-fetched and might set the breeder up for a liablity suit (dog got loose and produced unwanted litters etc.). The only thing a breeder can do is to appeal to the owner's common sense by sending information like the ones contained in the links. The bad thing is that a lot of vets will not tell their clients all this. Remember that their major source of income is from people desexing and vaccinating their pets. Last December, I retired one of my females at age 7 to my friend's house who is a single divorced mother and wanted a house companion for her and her 10 year old son. My poor friend ended up paying 1200 US-Dollars for Vila's spay surgery, just because the vet saw her coming. They talked her into bringing her in a night before, so they can monitor her food and water intake after midnight and had her spent the night afterwards as well. Chris |
by shepherdpal on 15 July 2009 - 00:45 |
| Thanks everyone for the repsonses and the links. Benny went to the vet today for shots at 13 weeks and the bey could only feel one testicle. I think, based on what 1 have read here I will wait until he is about 1 year to neuter him. an extra 6 months can;lt hurt and may help his development. In the packet of info the breeder ( http://www.hinterlandgsd.com) sent home she said that she does not normally recommend neutering even males who are not to be bred. ( but she does agree this should be done in cryptorchid to prevent cancer. The vet said Benny is doing great, He is up to 30 pounds but thin. His temperament is great and he know " sit, down, stay. fetch and shake. Now if I could get him over the ankle biting!  |
by GSDPACK on 16 July 2009 - 08:36 |
| Thank you for the links.. always something new to learn. MCW |
by GregN on 17 July 2009 - 03:17 |
| coming from a vet reproductive specialist, he advised to wait 'til he is 2 before surgically removing the undecended testicle. Sometimes they are born without the testicle or they can't be found by palpatating so an ultrasound might be a good idea before submitting the dog to exploratory surgery in order to find the undecended testicle. I'm about to go through it myself. |
by ramagsd on 20 July 2009 - 01:13 |
| Friend of mine had cryptorchid pup. They waited unto he was about 18 months. Vet removed the undescended testicle, then did a vasectomy on the other--best solution for them! |
by mirasmom on 24 July 2009 - 14:55 |
| It is a fault that is passed on from the dam's side...... |
mirasmom by Setanta on 21 November 2009 - 23:24 |
| It's a pity Haughmill's replies can't be taken seriously. omeine reading this replies feels like thre is some sort of bullying going on. It is difficult to know how much of the bad feelng is affected by the stuff on forums and what else may be going on. I suspect they have a lot of expertise, but do themselves (and the breed) a great disservice with their selling techniques. It's like the boy that cried wolf, you just stop listening after a while. I sincerely hope, kindly assuming they are reputable, that they address their dificulties asap. |
by VomMarischal on 22 November 2009 - 03:43 |
| Please don't neuter your dog before 17-18 months of age (assuming that you can keep him out of breeding situations). It damages development of growth plates (in the bones). Dog that are neutered too young end up tall and stringy rather than bulky. So IF you think you are responsible enough to avoid unwanted puppies, you should wait. |
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