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German Shepherd Dog > maybe time for GSD people to consider or reconsider outcrossing the GSD? (52 replies)

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 11:08

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by Paul Garrison on 27 August 2013 - 11:08

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With what?  Why don't we just start culling the crap and just breed the good ones?

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 11:08

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the early founders of the breed would always outcross with other working type dogs. all this linebreeding could lead to lots of health isssues.

some new outcross blood in the tradition of the founders would do great for the breed.............wouldn't it??

by Paul Garrison on 27 August 2013 - 11:08

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I do not health issues with my dogs. We do not need out crosses we need not to breed crap.

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 11:08

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ok but how do u stop from breeding crap?

by beetree on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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LOL, we'd have to ask the breeders of crap to stop breeding crap ... @eddy

by Paul Garrison on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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We all get culls (crap) put it down is my opinion but at least spay or neuter. Do not give a full registration until the dog is proven to be quality or better then that do not give the papers at all until you know of quality. But oops the will sure dip in the pockets of puppy sales.

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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i guess we can outcross with some close cousins like the malinois and dutch shepherd....... or how about going back to basics.......

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_German_Herding_Dogs
 

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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what is your kennel name paul.......and o you have a website.

you definitely have the right approach but money is what a lot of people only think of.

by joanro on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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Selling all pups with LTD reg or no reg and strings attached is like leasing a pup. The person never owns it completely. I'm not saying that some pups don't need to go with LTD reg, but putting restrictions on all pups, with strings is not selling to the owner. I'd not buy a pup with restrictions, might as well go get a dog from the pound. If a breeder is breeding quality, not all those pups are going to be culls, in fact not many will be.
The breeder needs to know how to rate their pups and how/where to place them. Stopping people from breeding what they buy is what the spay/ neuter laws are attempting to accomplish.
Eddy, there are lots of quality GSDs available and bringing in another breed would only create a mess.

by GSDNewbie on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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Outcrossing has been done in trying to make new breeds like the shiloh < just no...> and with again with malanois with some very good or very bad results... as well as many dutch shepherds have been pumped inot the breed over the past very quietly. The breed has become so segregated that crossing a working line with a showline is controversial enough and many times being done by people with not enough knowledge to do it well. how about people learn about breeding dogs instead of just going by what abreviations are on a dog either working or show and just consider the dog itself and what the lines in the dog are bringing in. To many only breed a working line because one of a few lines that are hard dogs are in the line and to many show line people only want to see a VA in front of names without ever researching what the dog actually passes on and how frequent and if the dog got his working titles legitimitly and delveing deeper to be sure there are no hush hush cheats on the dogs genetic health or mental defect in the rumor mill.

by cage on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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Eddy, outcrossing will not help.Paul is right the way to go is to breed only high quality dogs - healthy ones with good drives and drives needed for work. If you outcross you have to choose high quality dogs as well,it´s not like oh I mate my GSD female with some mali male and I will have superior pups. You need to have knowledge and experience and if you have it you can do the same while doing purebred matings. The same people who "breed" crap GSDs today will do the same with GSD-mali crosses in the future.
However,doing GSD - malinois breedings is not that uncommon in my country but the puppies from these breedings don´t get papers,they are bred to get dogs that would suit police needs and the parents of theses litters are hips/elbows tested, they are dogs with high ball/prey/civil drive and good nerves.The best pups are kept to be trained and the rest is sold to pet homes. The dogs from these breedings are not good because of being crosses but because of their parents being good representatives of their breeds.

by Blitzen on 27 August 2013 - 12:08

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Eddy's back in full form..................What Smile

by vonissk on 27 August 2013 - 13:08

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Yeah he is Blitzen. Thank you Bee and Paul..........best answer period.

by Ruger1 on 27 August 2013 - 13:08

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I have an idea,  instead of breeders culling the poor unworthy pups they should give them away to pet homes instead,,With no papers; most would not reproduce other unworthy offspring and the average pet owner could have a nice pet ,,

There would be much less crap breeding if breeders weren't making money selling these crap dogs, but rather giving them away instead for free..If breeders don't have the incentive to sell a crap pup for $500 - $2500  there would less pups born overall. Breeders would ONLY breed top stock to have their very best chance of producing competitive dogs for their venue. There would be NO other motivation ($$) except keeping back the pick to gain their own quality pup..,,.

And if the average back yard breeder did not have registered/papered dogs to advertise ($$) as such, there would be less "back yard bred" unwanted crap dogs floating around the world ...

I would think that eventually backyard breeders would have less to $dvertise and breeders would stop $umping out $uppys..Most problems in the world revolve around the $$$...

Just a thought...

by eddyelevation on 27 August 2013 - 14:08

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nice to see you guys missed me........Teeth Smile
 

by Hundmutter on 27 August 2013 - 14:08

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Cage - AMEN !

by Paul Garrison on 27 August 2013 - 22:08

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I try not to add to the pet quality dogs of this world but I can not keep every puppy to see what it turns out to be, so I aim to place them in capable hands with a critical eye. However i gave up on making a profit or even breaking even with protection dogs years ago. They are more expensive then grand kids.

by Ruger1 on 27 August 2013 - 23:08

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Just so no one misunderstands me,,I am one of the people who would (and did ) happily pay $2,500  for your culling pet quality pups..I hate the over population of poor creatures in the world,,I don't have any problem with breeders making a profit if possible ,,I just don't think there are enough good homes to warrant the amount of litters being bred..  I just have such a disdain for indiscriminate breeders and irresponsible owners..This is not the thread to vent sorry...

by Dawulf on 27 August 2013 - 23:08

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Here we go again... Popcorn, anyone?


 

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