German Shepherd Dog > Problems with Young Stud Dog (17 replies)
Problems with Young Stud Dog
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 15:51
|I need some input here. My male is not proven yet and we are having some trouble getting that done. He has been vet checked has a clean bill of health. Hips and Elbows A stamped Excellent.|
We tried him with a seasoned breeding bitch in January he turned 3 this May. He was interested he mounted all goofy angels which is normal for a first timer. She was so patient with him and thus the reason we choose her to use. He finally got inside did the happy dance, but no tie, this happened about 3 times. He was fully erect when he came out and was pumping out seamen. Well we tried every other day while she was still in her standing heat. NOTHING.
So we try another female in the spring he would mount her but never got himself close enough to get in.
Then we tried him again at the end of May with another female and same thing he would get on start humping but not get in. He kept going back and trying again but no connection and no tie.
I talked to my vet and he said sometimes it take these males awhile to get the idea. Well he has the idea, but its like he gives up.
I have never had this happen before with any of my other dogs, so I am really looking for some input here.
I am working with the breeders that I got him from and they have never had this problem either so with the wealth of experience on this forum that is why I am posting here.
Again he has been vet checked from head to toe and inbetween and he checked out perfect
by Chaz Reinhold on 22 July 2012 - 15:58
|You should omit "Stud" from your title. Maybe mother nature knows best. Besides, you said he is ejaculating. He got what he wanted, right?|
by Bhall on 22 July 2012 - 16:09
|Have you tried helping him in any way? Sometimes you will have to help.|
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 16:17
|Yes we have tried helping him but as with some males and with him being green it threw him off his game. We held the female and that did seem to work a bit better. I am going to try a few more times to see if it's just a case of inexperience because health is not an issue. Thank you Bhall for the suggestion.|
I want to make it clear to the first responder that yes maybe I should not have used the term "Stud" but I was not looking for a lesson in grammer and I am very aware that not all males or females for that matter are meant to reproduce.
I was looking to see if anyone else has encountered a problem like this or for advice on what to do.
by Chaz Reinhold on 22 July 2012 - 16:47
|Was just joking that he doesn't sound like a "Stud", yet. Agree with Bhall. Aside from showing him instructional videos, letting him figure it out, you may want to help.|
by Chaz Reinhold on 22 July 2012 - 16:50
|Don't know that I, personally, would assist. A pup is born and instincts take the to mom for food. Nobody teaches them.|
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 16:59
|Chaz do they have Masters and Johnson's video's for dogs??????|
Now I was joking LOL!
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 17:04
I do agree that this has to be a natural process. I am not a big fan of AI if the dog can not do it themselves. If the dog proves himself then fine AI is ok. I am hoping that this is just a case of inexperience with him. I have set a deadline so that if he can not do the deed by the time he turns 4 then I will have him Neutered. He is a great dog and so beautiful. I will say though those Hill's lines take forever to mature mentaly LOL!
by DDRCzechFan on 22 July 2012 - 18:15
|I've experienced this before (different breed) but the stud was seasoned pro and bitch was maiden.|
However, my stud was having the same issue, and to be honest, we (bitch owner, myself and my vet at the time) really just over thought it...My stud was too heavy for the bitch to support him and her knees were shaking and he was "missing the hole" so-to-speak.
We never did get that bitch bred, we did an AI, it didn't take because we spent the better part of a week trying naturally to no avail. We were unable to hold the female's hind end up enough for my stud to "do what he needed to do" but from what I heard, the bitch was bred next season to a male about 15lbs lighter than mine (she went to a different breeder, I only had one stud) and the bitch whelped 10 healthy pups 9 weeks later.
However, you said this is the SECOND bitch you've tried with this would-be stud and still unable to tie?
Not to sound perverted here, but ya know, maybe he's just lacking patience and just getting a little ahead of himself? Other than AI (which won't ever help him become a naturally breeding stud, as you know) a very patient bitch, and maybe trying to guide him (yes, with your hand, I don't know what else to suggest at this point) I'm not sure what else can be done.
Every good stud starts somewhere, but trying several times with two different bitches, I tend to lean toward what Chaz was saying, maybe it's just not in his cards :(
by Q Man on 22 July 2012 - 18:15
|You mentioned that he ejaculated and semen came out...But did that female or any of the others get pregnant?|
I don't know for sure...but I'd guess that there are some males that just don't "tie"...maybe others know about this...But they can still mate and produce...
A "tie" is nothing more then Nature's way of making sure that the female had every chance to produce...
by vonissk on 22 July 2012 - 18:42
|I have no advice but I did want to share my experience with you. My male was bred for the first time when he was about 2.5 and again when he was 3. Both were experienced females and everything seemed to go fine. But that was it. Even when a receptive bitch flagged him and backed up to him he would mount and then hump a bit and as you say back off and squirt semen everywhere. So later on yes I had him neutered. He is a great dog as far as telling when a female is ready; typical male when they are in heat--no eating, trying to get to them and will tear the house apart to do so. Of course I don't have to worry about that now anyway. I agree with the others, maybe it was meant to be. What he produced was nice but not exactly what I wanted. So for me it all worked out, but I always wondered if something was wrong with him.................|
by Bhaugh on 22 July 2012 - 18:46
|Maybe he has lost confidence in completing the "task at hand" Like anything learned if the dog is unsuccessful after repeated trys, he will lack confidence to do it again. I am not a proponent of AI only dogs (male or female)|
Maybe men should be pulled from the gene pool if they ejaculate too soon . Oops did I just say that? Sorry!
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 19:33
|Q Man no that female did not get PG. That was the only one he ever got inside. We used her for his first time because she was a seasoned bitch and really patient, but then again she had not been bred for over 2 years.|
I appreciate all the responses we will see what happens this next time, the female is due to come in August. Then there is another very good patient girl coming in Mid October so if nothing happens with these two I have pretty much made up my mind that I will have him Neutered.
BHaugh that was to funny
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 19:40
|Vonissk I hear you on that point. Now my dogs brother is a BREEDING MACHINE!!! He has sired two litters and his sex drive is over the top!!! Now he is not as handsome, conformationaly correct and has only 1/8th of the drive that my dog has, his color is not nearly as nice either, so maybe what happened here is that my dog got all the beauty and drive and his brother got all the hormones LOL! Who knows. I am sorry your dog did not work out but I am glad to see that someone else had a similar issue. This is the first time I have ever seen this so that is why I had to ask.|
by vonissk on 22 July 2012 - 20:56
BHaugh yep you are way too funny. BTW I didn't hear anything you said. A guy from the sheriff's dept. called me the other day about a boy we have for sale. In the process of telling him about him I said I had him in the house and he did mark something when one of the girls was in heat. I said but no big deal after all that's how you guys are. He said I can't believe you said that but between us I think it's funny as hell.......................
by JBT on 22 July 2012 - 21:40
I usually don't post responses on the site but I found this thread quite disturbing. First have you had a sperm count done on the male? I know you said he is in excellent health. In 40 years of breeding and managing stud dogs I have never had a male that I didn't assist in breeding his first time. When I say assist I mean hands on with the male not the female. I you are not comfortable doing this please seek out an experienced stud owner and have them show you. A tie is not neccessary to produce puppies but a tie is easily obtained if the stud is handled properly. I train all my stud dogs from an early age to accept assistance from me to save energy and time on the males part. There is nothing to be gained by allowing your potential stud to wear himself out trying to get a breeding that he could have got on his first mount with alittle assistance. With numerous breedings comes confidence and experience on the males part. I have worked with numerous experienced studs from Germany and taught them to accept help. Please seek help from an experienced stud owner or a reproduction specialist or Vet.
by sibemom1 on 22 July 2012 - 22:38
|Thanks for the response Jeff. His sperm count was over 250 million and they all were quite good swimmers as the vet put it|
As far as helping him we are going to try that this next time. I have never had to do this before so this is something new for me.
He is very use to being handled from puppy on. I really do appreciate the information.
by rtdmmcintyre on 22 July 2012 - 22:43
|I had this problem with a Dobie I had years ago. a dobie reaches adulthood around two and half to three years. and untill he was over three he was just a fumbling teenager.|