German Shepherd Dog > What do you think of this dog? (125 replies)
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 15:41
|Total the number of dogs shown in any AKC area and I think you will find that the GSD entry has not dropped proportionately any more than any other breed. All individual breed entries are down partially due to the increase number of shows. That's not the only reason, but it's a big part of it. A few years ago a friend sat down and did a rough total of the number of shows in the mid east in 1980 and compared it to the number of shows in 2010. There were almost 3 times as many shows in 2010. Shows that attracted 1200 total, now only attract 300 or 400 because there are 1 or 2 other all breed shows within easy driving distance. The GSD breed entries may also be down because more ASL people are showing in AKC performance/OB events. Every month the number of GSD's qualifying for OB titles seem to be on the increase and some of those dogs are also AKC champions.|
Put it all together - increased number of shows, the ecomony, disgust with politics, the realization that they need to do something more with their dogs other than just conformation - and I think we get a more complete picture of why AKC GSD entries are down. It's not only because ASL people are seeing the light and going to German dogs. Some I know have got out of the breed and gone with entirely different AKC breeds.
by Hundmutter on 11 July 2012 - 15:44
|Thank you Rik, that makes perfect sense to me.|
by Rik on 11 July 2012 - 17:20
|I really do not know a lot of AKC/GSDCA people who "saw the light" and switched to German dogs.|
Most of those I associated with (who no longer show) stopped for a variety of reasons, both personal and economic. It has been a few years since I showed seriously, but even then, the cost of 3/4 day AKC event could easily approach $700/$1000 with handler fees and travel expenses.
by dAWgESOME on 11 July 2012 - 17:38
The dog is not perfect (none are & if you think yours is you are only fooling yourself)
but I have seen waaaaaaaaaaay worse (I think we all have) - It is what it is....
More importantly I'd also like to add that ANY dog photographed from those same angles will look poor. I take a ton of photos of dogs all the time and you would be amazed at how a very nice looking dog shot from the wrong angle can look terrible. Don't get me wrong it goes the other way too, poor quality dogs can be posed to look better then they really are too.
I just don't think it entirely fair to rip this dog apart based on two bad photos
by Gustav on 11 July 2012 - 17:41
|Thx Rik, the issue isn't about a comparison to all other breeds, the issue is within the breed. As I said dog sports are increasing( that doesn't just include biting sports, but all dog sports as I initially said), and numbers of German Shepherds in American breed ring is way down. I stand by what I wrote and (as some like to say), the unbiased can see it. The reasons for this occurrence is opinion....the numbers IN THE BREED is facts. I much rather deal with facts than opinions or emotions. I just say what is and some can't handle it regardless of lines, that's why I also point out the increasing trends in WL will also lead to some bottleneck issues. It is what it is.|
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 18:47
Why isn't it relevant to this breed that entries in every AKC show in every breed are down in about the same proportion? I show another breed - in 1980 in my area we needed 12, 13 for a 3 pt major, now we need 4 and 5. GSD's needed 23, 24 if I remember right, now they need 12 and 12 or less in some areas. The number defeated for a major is computed on the number of dogs exhibited the previous quarter. When that number falls every quarter for almost every breed, it's a good indication that the entries are down for almost every breed.
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 19:02
|The cost of showing and finishing a GSD is astronomical. I don't know how it compares to showing SV style, but I'm guessing it's not cheap to do that either. Dog showing is quickly becoming the sport of kings in both venues.|
by Gustav on 11 July 2012 - 19:33
|@ Blitzen, the popularity of the breed has remained the same or maybe increased. Nobody says that anything is the only reason, but when the popularity of the breed is constant, AS dogs are down, imports are dramatically up, dog sports are up, WGSL dog is up, in this country, there are some obvious conclusions that can be drawn. People that import or participate in dog sport, or Seiger type shows have economic constraints also....yet these areas remain strong. Maybe it doesn't add up, but if not a primary cause then the trend would be across the board.....who knows what makes sense.|
by FerrumGSDs on 11 July 2012 - 19:43
|liked your post dawgawwsome. I like your comments rik and blitz too. The thread has gone off topic though... 6 pages.|
The fertility issue was a nice spin off.
Cost is another as well.
Blitzen, did they hold those shows the same weekend?
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 20:36
|Yes, both shows the same day, the same weekend. One in the AM, one in the PM.|
by Hundmutter on 12 July 2012 - 06:43
|Not just a States problem, there's a massive downturn in Show attendance and numbers entered across the UK, same|
problems with affordibility, same sorts of gimmicky suggestions to get people back. Similar accusations of face-judging,
appointment swapping etc. Across all breeds, not just GSDs. Would be interesting to hear whether this is also becoming
true in the rest of the world - do those countries with some dog-showing history find it is happening to their scene, too ?
by dantes on 12 July 2012 - 16:46
I've seen much worse cow hocks, so this dog is certainly not cow-hocked to the max, to accurately judge if a dog is truly cow hocked it must be seen while the dog is gaiting. Nor is the croup wrong, actually it is a very good looking lay of croup, especially for an ASL, the dog's angulation is rather moderate for an ASL. I highly doubt you see dogs like this regularly in the pound.
Well, we differ. I see a very average animal that I wouldn't want to own. Heavy in appearance (some of that could be coat, I suppose) , weak pasterns, bizarre hocks and, as it is unlikely to be an effective WORKING animal (let's not forget what a GSD is SUPPOSED to be...) I could see no reason to own it when it also fails to be even decorative!
Could be a great dog, I'm sure someone loves it, but in those shots it looks pretty mediocre.
However, I know that any dog, or person for that matter, can look bad in an unguarded moment!
by FerrumGSDs on 12 July 2012 - 18:48
|Thanks Blitzen, So, they could not make it from one show to the other in time? ( I imagine they could not)|
by Blitzen on 12 July 2012 - 19:58
|Both shows were at the same site, Ferrum. A few all-breed AKC shows are held back-to-back too; the same day, same site.|
by FerrumGSDs on 12 July 2012 - 21:07
This back to back is done in order to atract handlers and exhibitors to fly or drive in from far away bringing in entries, but I thought you said they were 150 miles apart? ( You mean the clubs are registered 150m apart)
Entries are down in my opinion for many reasons. I'm not sure if you have limits on how many schH, ring or work events can be held, but the AKC does limit how many shows you can have. ( 2 for a specialty club) here at least members wanted them back to back. I never saw a GSD that did not get shipped to a handler get an AKC CH title ever. Several had all majors, many were pointed and never acheived CH because no money was placed behind them to ship them around.
When I was active, show owners wanted more shows but the AKC always denied these and asked the club to hold more obedience events instead. A wonderful thing about the SV system as well as the FCI system is the ratings. You can get a V rating from a prestigous judge even if you have a small entry but the entry deserves it. They also have the power to give lesser ratings. It lets you know how good your dog is in the opinion of each judge. How complicated is it to have a SchH club I wonder.
by magdalenasins on 12 July 2012 - 21:18
|He's not fat, he's big coated. *rolls eyes* :P|
by fawndallas on 12 July 2012 - 22:27
|"I'm not fat. I'm just fluffy." |
Sorry, but magdalenasnis started it.
by Blitzen on 12 July 2012 - 23:33
|Does this coat make me look fat, Abe?|
Ferrum, I started showing in the early 70's when there were fewer AKC sanctioned all breed clubs too. We had to hold 2 matches (OB and conformation) a year to keep our show approval status. No club was ever approved for more than 1 show a year, no 2 shows allowed within 300 or was it 400 miles of another, no 2 shows at the same site,and an independent breed specialty show was unheard of. Entries were $7.00 for puppies, $10.00 for all other classes Considering the current price of entries, handler's fees, and gas I guess it's a good thing for the exhibitors that multiple shows are held at the same site.
by vonissk on 13 July 2012 - 00:24
|I'm sorry to disagree but the last speciality I went to--May 2011==had 5 shows in 3 days--2 each day and one on the last day. Do you mean only 2 shows a day? Well that's all they would have time for if it is an outside show....................BTW this was in Oklahoma City.|
by joanro on 13 July 2012 - 02:02
|The Collie club of America, held independent breed specialty shows in the late sixties in Anaheim, so did GSD Club of Northern Ca. Golden Gate Kennel Club and Santa Clara Kennel Club, also Sacramento Kennel Club have been approved for two shows a year for at least forty years. Maybe Fla was different.|