German Shepherd Dog > What do you think of this dog? (125 replies)
by Ramage on 10 July 2012 - 20:38
|I don't see how it's even possible to finish a GSD with AKC unless you hire a handler or travel all over the country yourself. In FL there don't even seem to be enough GSDs getting shown to major - at least not at the all breed shows.|
by joanro on 10 July 2012 - 20:57
|Vonissk,, not to get into a big row with you over balls or no balls on a dog being shown, but this is where an exhibitor's honesty comes in. A spayed female is not supposed to be shown in conformation but it is done anyway. Who will know except the exhibitor and perhaps handler? Some determined people even utilize prosthetic testicles to get by a judge. Doesn't make it right just because it can be pulled off. So, as Hundmutter said,Trophies should not be pursued once something detrimental is known about a dog. Entering a huge show and taking BOB sort of cheats the breed out of a winner when the dog is known to be infertile.|
by Markobytes on 10 July 2012 - 21:35
| I have mixed feelings on this one. On one hand I do not think it is correct to run around take pictures of someone else's dog, post the pictures then and ask for critiques. Where do we draw the line? Is it alright for someone to catch one of my dogs as they begin to take a poop then post the pictures enquiring if my dog has a roach? There is nothing wrong when someone asks for a critique of their own dog and perhaps of someone else's dog that the owners made the pictures of public, it is not alright in my opinion to take pictures of someone else's dog without their permission then post them on an international forum and ask for critiques. On the other hand this is a famous dog I am just not too sure this is fair game, it would be if the owner was making a statement proclaiming this to be a perfect dog. I believe there are some dogs that you can not get to stand cow hocked no matter what you do, there are probably some that normally don't stand cow hocked that will for a second under the right circumstances. How many pictures did Red Sable take that show the dog cow hocked? all of them? was this the only one out of 800 pictures that show the dog standing this way? It is possible the dog could of been placed in this position for a split second then corrected himself the next, during a show the dogs are placed in some cramped positions and are moved around a little as more dogs move near by. Where do we draw the line? Is it alright to take a picture of someone's 3 month old pet and post the picture with intent to bash and humiliate innocent people? Do we save this for only the winners of the show? Trial? ( no bashing intended ) Red Sable does have a track history of offensive posts, I am just not sure that she intends them to be. I do not mind posts from people with a different point of view, I would only hope that they would be informative, and there were some very good posts made on this thread by too many people to name them all.|
Gustav was correct in noticing the dwindling numbers of GSDs in AKC conformation shows, it presents an opportunity for GSDs of all lines to be shown and perhaps do well. To those that think the ASL is ruining the breed it should not be lost that the Johannes Grewe amendments breathed new life into an organization that was dying but now will live on.
by Markobytes on 10 July 2012 - 21:37
|I agree 100% joanro|
by vonissk on 10 July 2012 - 21:43
|Joanro I agree with you as I know dog shows were set up for the purpose of "having their dogs evaluated for breeding" so to speak. I know little about Cappy and those people's biz but Blitzen indicated the dog became infertile after his CH. I don't know. I do know that it shouldn't be right. I also know that if it were my dog what would be the point?|
I also know that when a bitch is spayed, the scar must be the telling point because I have read in the back of the Gazette where it tells who was 86ed for what, that people have been fined for trying to show a dog that was knowingly altered regarding this subject. In other words not for dying hair, too much chalk and foo foo spray and all that. I also know that the UKC has classes now for altered dogs. I have never seen any dogs at this class, altho they have them where I show. I also feel AKC will follow suit as a lot of the shows having fewer exhibitors has to do with the economy.
The GSDCA is now offering 2 coat classes at this year's Nationals and I also believe that is an economic move because I know a lot of people are against it.
Blitzen, not only are performance events up but also have you noticed how there seem to be a lot more OFA excellents too. Also seems like more people are joining the club then before. Always glad to see that. I've seen some I KNOW and they were die hard WL fans. Hmmmm what's up with that?
One other thing I will add regarding the WDA--I remember a time when you had better not even whisper your dog did any kind of bitework at an AKC show or you were shunned for sure. And now that has changed and regardless of the reason I think that was a good move. IMO the change in the dogs was not made overnight and it's going to be longer than overnight to change it for the better. Myself I see some changes in both peoples' thinking and their actions and it's a good thing.
by vonissk on 10 July 2012 - 21:48
|Markobytes EXCELLENT post. Thank you and please keep sharing your unbiased opinion.............|
by Red Sable on 10 July 2012 - 22:30
| Go away for a couple of days and come back to some hilarious posts.|
Some of you guys are pretty funny.
If you had read my first post, I had said, I'd taken the pics BEFORE I realized who the dog was. I am not a professional photographer, and took pictures of the dog the way it is, (on my cheap cell phone)before it was stacked to cover his faults. If he doesn't look good he has no one to blame but himself ( or his breeder), as pictures do not lie.
This dog won Westminister, so why would you compare it to my dogs, who of course have won nothing, never had I said they had, nor am I touting it is the dog to compare all others to when it comes to the conformation standard! THAT my friends is the difference here. Am I breeding my dogs? or studding them out?
Go a head and dig up pictures of my dogs, (they are on here), and critique them all you like. :)
You will not see me boo hoo one way or the other, EVER!
If this dog is the most correct of all the GSD's, (conformationally) he had better be ready for differing opinions and critiques.
I'm sure the owner/handler isn't as much of a baby as some on here, or he'd never be where he is.
by djc on 10 July 2012 - 22:39
|The dog did not win Westminster. He won the GSD and the Herding group.|
by Markobytes on 10 July 2012 - 23:17
The difference is you just invited others to critique your dog, the owners of this dog did not ask for a critique given of their dog from an unflattering picture. I am not saying you are wrong, one of the intentions of this forum should be educational. I am having trouble with where do you draw the line in being respectful to others.
by Markobytes on 10 July 2012 - 23:38
|If you want to change things, show your dogs, there are some AKC judges that will look favorably to other lines. I don't have a lot of knowledge of ASLs, but from what I have seen of them in the past, this dog is an improvement. There are not many GSDs at an AKC show, it would not be that hard to get a well constructed dog from any line to do well.|
by Red Sable on 10 July 2012 - 23:49
Sorry, that should have said at Westmininster.
by Doppelganger on 10 July 2012 - 23:53
The majority of them look cow hocked and down on their pasterns to me.
by vonissk on 11 July 2012 - 02:22
|When you are biased and closed minded then I'm sure they do all look like crap.|
And Red Sable what a poor excuse to not show your dog. There are SV coat classes, UKC will put up a coated dog and I just said earlier the GSDCA is having two classes at the Nationals and I am sure that's only the beginning.
Also I don't care if King Tut didn't like the dog. I guess that makes it OK for you to take an unflattering picture of the dog, come on here and bash it and say you were ashamed of the breed after you saw them in the ring.
Then you come on here after being gone for 2 days and starting all this stuff and saying how funny we all here. Sorry I must be a real bitch today cause I fail to see the humor.
So go ahead and have your little laughs, bash the dogs and make excuses for not doing anything with your dogs.
Myself I am going to keep an open mind, look at things objectively, keep showing and working my dogs as I can because I am physically disabled, and believe there is enough of us who truly love the breed and care about it's future and have like thinking. Some who know the difference between A and Z and who hav e RESPECT for others and their differences.
by Markobytes on 11 July 2012 - 02:40
If you read the start of my original post I said I am having mixed feelings, I can see the merit in what you have posted. I am however concerned with the potential abuses of a post like this. Even though the dog was brought to a judge for a critique and those that knew what they are looking for can see the dog who else at the show thought to take pictures of the dog then put them on an international database? There are probably a lot of people that have no problem with this. You are probably correct when you state that the owners are not as thin skinned and don't care what we post. Not everyone is going to appreciate this kind of treatment in the future. This thread did have some good input. I have to be honest in writing that your posts that I have seen are usually not this in depth, they usually sound like pointless name calling. You have handled yourself well in your replys.
My statement to show was a general one as I do think well constructed working lines have as good or perhaps a better chance in an AKC ring than do a lot of WGSLs. I did not mean it as a crack against you or your dogs. I am also curious as to what you saw of the competition there, were there any dogs that you thought were better than the one you posted pictures of?
by Jenni78 on 11 July 2012 - 03:03
|, Markobytes and Vonissk. |
I never have, and probably never will understand posts like this thread. I don't think I could force myself to post a photo of a dog just to ridicule it him/her.
by vonissk on 11 July 2012 - 03:09
|Thanks Jenn. I really appreciate that. You were one of the ones I did not name but I know how much you love the breed and are for nothing but the betterment of it. Even tho at times we have agreed to disagree, we damn sure agree about the bashing fests...............BTW when you get tired of Capri send her down here so I can just stare at her beauty all day. LOL Cause I know that ain't gonna happen.................|
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 12:55
|Ramage, it is very difficult to finish a GSD anywhere without a WELL-KNOWN pro handler. We get a few majors here in FL, but most of the time the dogs have to go out of state to finish.|
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 12:55
|What show was this, RS?|
by Blitzen on 11 July 2012 - 13:34
|So, carry on and put half the forum on the defensive and half on the offensive and see where we are 2 years from now. In the meantime I would rather smash my head against a brick wall.|
GSDadmin, we don't seem to agree on much lately, but I do agree with this statement.
by Rik on 11 July 2012 - 15:06
|I agree that posting a pic of someone else's dog is bad form, however if I present my dog in a public event as a top representative of the breed and he/she gets ripped by people who know what they are looking at, then that is on me.|
I do not agree that AKC show entries are down because of more shows/clubs. 25 years ago there were 80-100 GSD at the AKC shows in my area, today there are 5-6. Very few new people are getting involved while as Gustav said, the popularity of Sch. and the German dog is steadily growing.