German Shepherd Dog > Raw diet - specific quesions (14 replies)
Raw diet - specific quesions
by fawndallas on 30 June 2012 - 04:27
|I am concidering changing over to a raw diet for my dogs and i have some questions for those of you who feed the raw food. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Where do you get your food? I assume the meat section at a grocery store. but we all know what assume really means. ------------------------------------------ 2. Looks like chicken is the primary food. Do you suppliment with beef and fish? ------------------- 3. Where I live, fish is hard to come by. Is there a real need to suppliment?-------------------------- 4. Do I skip veggie all together or offer and see what they eat? --------------------------------------- 5. What is a typical week diet for your dog? For example: ----------------- day 1: 1/4 chicken plus 1 cup of green beans------------------ day 2: 1/2 lb of ground beef plus 1 cup of carrots--------------------- 6. Do you cook the food to help off set any of the bacteria in the food (other than taste, there is a reason why we cook our packaged meat)? ---------------------- 7. Is there a valid reason to include suppliment vitamins? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I know all the reasons for raw vs. kibble food. The hardest thing I am having to find is details on what an actual raw diet is (don't sell me the commerical stuff I can only find at pet stores).|
by yellowrose of Texas on 30 June 2012 - 04:46
|I order a case of raw fresh liver from the head man at the Wal Mart in Tyler SUper ONE> it comes in large quantity but bagged by the 1/= 1 1/2 lb sealed sacks.|
I go to a Mexican Market in Tyler who has hearts, chicken livers, neck bones and buy them there and bring home and seperate and freeze.
I use to have a market meat manager who owned one of my girls who also had his own black angus and hunted deer both he and wife..they would butcher me meat and mix my hamburger for me too..Kumah ate for months on the deer he packaged for the dog..
I also buy chicken when on sale...Super Foods has this week chicken leg quarters 43 c a lb so I will by the 5 lb bags and freeze.. Then I use salmon in can...cheapest one ....I also use soup bones, pork neck bones and buy back /w necks at Super 1 Foods very cheap.
If you have a market , in the country who butchers cows, deer etc go visit him and find out when to come get a big box of his meat scraps minus fat.
Bones are very important but I do not use the legs of chicken as mine are like Gulpers..
Buy ahead if you need to ...buy a dent and damaged Freezer from Sears....put in garage or out building for dogs meat..Also I use whole eggs....brown.from yard eggs...find someone who sells in country.
I do not trust very many grocery stores period..ask around from men who hunt and find a butcher in a meat market.
Hamburger I buy when on sale...I also use extra virgin Olive oil on all meat at least 3 times a week., and a little garlic powder too..
But I cannot tell you amounts..MY mom always said A dash of this and a dab of that...so use good judgement.
by Gusmanda on 30 June 2012 - 04:51
|I feed several things. At the butchers store, I buy chicken necks and thighs, which I freeze for a week prior unfreezing. I give the piece of chicken each night. I also buy frozen raw fish filets (Tilapia), and each week I unfreeze one and give it to the dog. I buy beef and chop it up in cubes, wich I dump in boiling water for 10 seconds and then freeze, which I unfreeze one day before and give for breakfast. And finally, once a week I chop up different vegetables and fry them with bacon and a little rice, so the bacon smell entices the dog to eat the veggies and rice. And depending on what I eat for myself, I tend to share different fruit such as apples, mangos, and avocado. So my dog eats chicken, beef, fish, rice, vegetables, and fruits. And all of this is human grade food. This, I feel, is even healthier than what some of my friends eat themselves.|
Mind you, there was lots of trial and error, there are certain parts of the chicken which my dog will simply ignore. One thing is for sure, once you start, your dog will never want to eat kibble again. I tried getting into this with "partial" changes, but my dog soon started ignoring kibble and only ate the good stuff, so I had to speed up the transition in order to remove the kibble.
I used the book "Raw Dog Food" by Carina Beth MacDonals as a guide, though after a couple of months you'll get a good feeling for what works for your dog and yourself.
The important thing is just decide on doing it.
by fawndallas on 30 June 2012 - 05:01
|What about bones in the fish? Is this a problem? ---------------- Why preboil the beef and not the chicken? Isn't chicken more dangerious for bacteria? ------------- My husband is fan of feeding leftovers to the dogs. I have always been hesitant due to the herbs we use. What are your thoughts?|
by fawndallas on 30 June 2012 - 05:08
|Missed a question.... Should I plan on a transition period or can I just start when the kibble runs out?|
by Pharaoh on 30 June 2012 - 05:16
|I buy frozen fish from Trader Joes because it is less expensive, the freezing kills off a lot of stuff and Trader Joe's fish is not defrosted/processed/repackaged in China.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 30 June 2012 - 05:22
| Always do a transisition....little bit each day for 6 -9 days gradually decreasing the kibble..|
I have never parboiled nada....never....no need...vit c is the natural vitamin in raw meat..Quit worrying about salmonella..
If you go buy the meat , bring home imediately , pack in zip lock or freezer paper and bags mark for dogs and freeze and thaw in freezer daily... wash you hands always before and after hot water and Dawn dish washing detergent , same on we use to shampoo dogs. with..
I spray a thin , chlorox on counters in my kitchen and in my stainless steel bowls after cleaning them and rinse...I have huge ss bowls I put meat in from store and start dividing..
A wing, a neck and one sliver of liver and a bone..
Dogs eat raw bones , period
I just do not give the leg bone as my high food drive eat too fast and it unnerves me.
I give all other bones and all meats...Freeze immediately and feed small amounts if have to 2 times a day...Never give dog more than she can eat...or let go bury it..
Eat , use vinegar on area dog eats and in fact I sprinkle apple cidar vinegar on meat sometimes..It is a preserver and a good source of enzymes...
read up on Apple cidar vinegar w mother...(mudder)
DOGS eat small portions easier and not so fast. So feet 2 times a day ...clean bowls if you use bowls. I do not use bowls..
Throw an egg in daily or every other day...plus juice off of greens, or any veggie fresh you cook.
No fried foods no sugars no fast foods and buy weinies for tracking that are chicken or turkey...only use tee tiny pieces for rewards..and tracking....also tuna or chicken cooked for tracking in small processor quick cut up is great also.
by Niesia on 30 June 2012 - 05:24
|There are tons of recipes available online (just to name one http://www.german-shepherd-lore.com/raw-dog-food-recipe.html ).|
I experimented with different combinations of ingredients for months for the things she liked to eat and agreed with her, i.e. she won't eat raw eggs, but she will scarf them if cooked. Same with liver - cooked is one of her favorite foods.
Recipes are very individual, based on the dog itself, available (seasonal) ingredients and budget. My raw formula is based on the fact that I have access to a butcher who is processing organic cows for private use.
Beef: 50% chunks of meat (no ground), 25% chunks of heart and 25% 'saw dust' (from the butcher's saw: bone, marrow, gristle, etc.). ALL RAW
Fish: I also use a lot of wild 'humpy' salmon as it is free and plentiful while they are running (I live in the Pacific Northwest). The whole fish (guts and all) - ALL RAW - my dogs love them and devour them in seconds.
I rarely use chicken - my dogs prefer chicken cooked rather than raw.
I cook all the carbs: rice, potato, buckwheat, pasta, oats, beans, etc.
Fruit: all fruit as available (i.e. I don't go out of my way to buy it for my dogs) Usually those are bananas or apples that are starting to over ripen and are not so appetizing for us. ALL RAW
Veggies: carrots are the base, then everything that is cheap and in season and can be eaten raw, overproduction from my garden (i.e. parsnips, cabbage, spinach, etc. - NO ONIONS ever)
Herbs: my garden produces a lot of parsley, cilantro, basil, etc. and the surplus ends up in my freezer or their food.
I do not keep exact recipes, they get what I have available, but RAW meat is 50% + of the total meal.
I don't waste anything in my kitchen, i.e. table scraps, leftovers, a meal that didn't turn out so great - if I don't want it - the dogs will.
I have to however make a point - my puppies were weaned on this and carrots and apples are snacks for them. They won't turn their nose up to any of this. Some dogs will freak out if you put bananas or basil in their food...
I do supplement - I give human grade glucosamine chondroitin and 'skin, hair and nails' vit. (for 'show coat'). For puppies I use SureGrow100 for the first year or so. My dogs are so used to these that I don't even have to hide them in their food anymore - they just eat them.
I suggest investing in a chest freezer. I have one designated just for dogs, holds 200lb. I typically prepare 2 to 4 weeks worth of meals in advance and freeze them (takes about 1 hr of prep time for meals for 2 dogs for a month).
by Evangelina on 30 June 2012 - 06:34
|Wow Im so glad fawndallas asked this question. Everybody has good tips ideas. Your posts are great Yellowrose! Gonna bookmark the page. Thanks!|
by mirasmom on 30 June 2012 - 11:48
Feeding raw is all about mix & match, everyday can be an adventure for your dogs taste buds!
You can start feeding raw as soon as the kibble runs out.
Here is a link from my web-site to give you some ideas, sometimes I just buy chicken legs with
the thigh on at Market Basket for .69 cents a pound, they are human grade so I can even use
some if I want, at the most I just rinse them off good with warm water before I give them out,
"a leg a day keeps the vet away!"
Lots of luck to you, so much info out there to digest!!!
by EddaSG on 30 June 2012 - 13:01
Wonderful thread!!! Thank you fawndallas! Perfect questions.
I have started feeding raw to my two gsd within this last month twice a day. They love, love, love the raw. They seem so satiated now. The poop they leave is very little - as though from a Chihuahua, and of solid texture and actually does turn white in a few days - soooooo easy to clean up the yard -- no stepping on large pyramid size putrid piles of waste.
I have also had questions that this thread is covering well and will bookmark for continual use. Thank you.
Now I just need to transition my 14 year old red healer, which I think will benefit him greatly, and my 5 year old cat.
Also need to keep looking for places to get good bones and scraps. I do not, and may never feed raw pork, especially from the grocery store -- just a personal thing with me.
Thank you ALL for your experience.
by GK1 on 30 June 2012 - 16:01
Good news: there's no shortage of information on this topic online for you to research and consider.
Bad news: there's no shortage of information on this topic online for you to research and consider.
While I've concluded any form of kibble is as about as nutritions as wood chips, I still grapple with cooked vs. raw. The debate has no end and will boil down to - pun intended - personal preference. Any form of real meat is so much better than processed, chemical saturated commercial food.
The previous posts have pretty much highligted what a balanced diet may look like. Personnally I would add some live probiotic - like kefir or greek yogurt, unflavored/unsweetened. Chicken parts, organs, feet, beef soup bones with marrow, lamb, some cooked fish, and eggs pretty much make up the bulk of the proteins I use. I also add some berries/veggies to include plain pumpkin puree. Whole oats, some rice or pasta at times for fillers(all cooked). A bit of fresh garlic and cilantro.
The less conventional meat cuts, organs and whole fish can be found in Asian or Latin markets, at reasonable cost.
Unless your dog is finicky or tummy sensitive, I don't believe a gradual transition is necessary. Let the dog go hungry a day, then feed the new diet and adjust from there if needed.
by JusticeForAll on 30 June 2012 - 17:21
|My dogs primary meals are deer. We pick up roadkill that isn't too mangled. Our other source of meat is chicken as it is the cheapest meat when bought from the store. When we run out of deer, we have to buy pork and beef from the market, which gets pricey, to give them a variety. My kids don't like fish, so the only supplement i give them is salmon oil capsules. I don't cook anything...as the name of the diet says it all RAW, and I feed "0" veggies, grains, dairy. Only meat, bone and organ. I get liver and kidney from the store, as it is usually to big of a hassle to try and dig it out of a gut pile when dressing the deer. We also get all the freezer burnt or old meat from hunting friends of their deer/elk. For a lot of good info, with documents outlining how to feed, the raw feeding site on facebook has a lot of great info. http://www.facebook.com/groups/261761471359/|
by fawndallas on 30 June 2012 - 19:41
|all of this is great. Exactly what I was looking for. You are correct in saying there is lots of info on the internet. It just did not seem to be presented in a clear way.... Most sites spent more time convencing me than giving details. ----------Thank you everyone for your help.|
by EuroShepherd on 01 July 2012 - 01:07
I feed my dogs a variety of homemade meals, raw and lightly cooked veggies and/or well cooked grains.
I mostly leave the cooking part to any veggies/grains that I feed. None of my GSDs will eat raw veggies but my little dogs will so I sometimes give them raw veggies (carrots, celery, cucumber, etc.)
I never feed ground meat from the grocery store, I do have a friend who hunts and has a meat grinder and I sometimes get ground meat from them.
I'll feed any kind of poultry; chicken, turkey, duck, pheasant, etc. But my dogs mostly get chicken (except in the fall they get plenty of turkey!)
Whole rabbit (with the fur removed) is great.
I don't feed pork products to my dogs but I do feed beef, venison, lamb, goat, etc.
I found an African market near me that sells whole cow feet (the whole lower leg of the cow, hooves and all...except with the hair boiled off.) Also some stores sell whole sheep or goat heads (again, with the hair removed, or sometimes even skin removed)
necks, feet, wings, backs, ribs, shanks, livers, gizzards, hearts, lungs, kidneys, pancreas, green tripes/stomach, tongues and stew meat chunks are the usual things I buy for my dogs.
As for fish, I only feed small fish; anchovies, smelt, mackeral, herring. My dogs go crazy for smelt. They get the whole bodies of these tiny size fish, (scales, bones, heads, guts, etc.) The last couple of litters that I had, I was lucky to have frozen smelt on hand, I found that my girls who refused to eat even raw meat would still eat the smelt. I only feed small fish because they have much lower levels of mercury than larger fish.
Eggs, raw goats milk, raw cheeses, kefir yogurt, greek yogurt, raw honey, unsalted peanut butter, unsalted almond butter, sesame oil, sesame seeds, chia seeds, food-grade diatomaceous earth, sweet potatoes, fresh minced garlic, all kinds of herbs (parsley, rosemary, mints, basil, oregano, etc.) some fruits (like melon/cantelope, tomatoes and berries) sprouts, juiced wheatgrass....any of these I may add to my dogs meals.
I feed the herbs raw, but most of the veggies are lightly cooked/steamed and mashed up, I mix in eggs, small fish, cheese, yogurt...whatever smells and tastes good enough to make the dogs eat it.
As for grain, I sometimes give my dogs some in their meals, I usually stick to gluten-free grains, but sometimes they get a small amount of grain that has gluten. I also sometimes give them sweetcorn. Any grain I feed my dogs is well cooked. Sometimes they get lentils, peas or beans too. but they get less grain or legumes in their diet than vegetables.
As for meat, I always feed raw, often I'll dip the meat into a bowl of water that has a few spoonfuls of applecider vinegar in it....this will help kill most of any bad bacteria present on the meat. But if it makes you more comfortable then you can sear the outside of the meat in a pan (as if you're cooking a steak rare) or boil it or bake it. OR...you could quickly dip meat that has bone in it in a pot of boiling water for a few seconds....long enough to kill bacteria on the surface but not long enough to cook the bone. Bacteria primarily stays on the surface of meat.