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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Breeders that lie about titles and hip/elbow scores (22 replies)
Breeders that lie about titles and hip/elbow scores by macrowe1 on 25 June 2012 - 18:46 |
| Ok, I know part of this was my fault because I didn't do my research when buying my first GSD. I was told she was out of an OFA excellent male, and had Schh titles in the pedigree, could look up the sire on the database and he was shown as Schh3 and OFA Excellent. Not much for the first three generations that were on there except some great hips and Schh scores. So I was pumped, my dog is out of great hips, right? Wrong. I decided to look up the female's side, that the breeder didn't have any information on anymore (she was not his, he studded his male out), but that was not even 2 years ago. Anyway, so I look all of them up on OFA website...nothing. I know you can opt out of putting the results on the OFA website, so for a minute I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Til I asked him about it and he says that he did not do the dog's hips. But in the database, it is shown that he altered it and put the scores in. My point is that when you do research, keep researching and researching and look up everything yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it. Oh and then the male was sold, for a good sum of money, I'm sure under the impression he was OFA excellent and titled. I'm not the only person who is effected by this. This male produced many litters in a short time (should've known, but like I said I was inexperienced at the time). |
macrowe1 by Red Sable on 25 June 2012 - 18:50 |
| Don't blame yourself. We all like to think everyone is honest, but sadly it is not so, and many of us learn from the school of hard knocks. |
Red Sable by macrowe1 on 25 June 2012 - 19:03 |
| Thanks. I'm just upset. I hate when you think you're buying something and it's really nothing you were thinking. |
by GSDluver07 on 25 June 2012 - 19:15 |
| Yeah don't blame yourself. Your breeder is just money hungry and is going to do anything to get that check. |
by B.Andersen on 25 June 2012 - 19:39 |
All dogs that have had hip and elbows scored have paperwork proving this same with titles. it is wise to ask to see such documentation. Any breeder should be willing to show these documents. |
by macrowe1 on 25 June 2012 - 20:42 |
| B.Anderson, I know that now :( Of course I didn't think about it then, I was just wanting the pup. Now I'm worried because I thought my baby came from these great lines, and great hips, who don't, and I've talked to someone who owns her half-brother, who got the dog from someone who bought the dog from the original breeder, who bred this dog and went to register the litter and our dog's breeder through a fit and wouldn't let her register them because she "wasn't supposed to own the dog". It was supposed to be the middle man's dog, even though it wasn't in the contract that way. And even though the middle man bought the dog as being full registration. So she's stuck trying to fight him and AKC. I'm planning on contacting AKC about him, because he is an AKC registered breeder. But he's selling one of his breeding males on here, who people have commented on the videos as having low drive (which is true), way overpriced, and I guarentee his hip scores are not what the breeder is portraying them to be. I have it through the database (the history of changes on the dog, as well as like 6 other dogs in the pedigree with falsified hips and titles), and have threads from facebook messages and emails that prove he has lied. Is there anything I can do besides just warn people? |
by Blitzen on 25 June 2012 - 20:51 |
If you haven't already, why not have your dog's hips and elbows xrayed and go from there. Can you find any information on any of the dogs in the pedigree? Maybe you could post the pedigree or names of some of the dogs for comments. I don't think there would be anything unethcial about doing that. Have you registered your dog with AKC? |
Blitzen by macrowe1 on 25 June 2012 - 20:55 |
| Yes, she's AKC registered. I've looked up a ton, and those that he has altered are all incorrect according to OFA, as for titles I don't know. I don't know how to look this up. |
by Blitzen on 25 June 2012 - 21:26 |
| I don't know if you can check the titles. Maybe someone else knows. I guess you already searched the names in the OFA database and looked for ZW numbers on the net? I forget the link to the ZW information, but again someone else may know. If any of the dogs have a ZW rating I believe that means they have been "a" stamped? Is your concern about breeding her in the future and not knowing her history? You might want to contact one of the mods telling them about the information that is incorrect. They might be able to check to see who made the changes and delete the wrong information. If he is using other dogs' information that may be a violation of the PDB TOS's. |
by macrowe1 on 25 June 2012 - 22:20 |
| Yea, I got her hoping to breed her in the future, if she titles and her hips are good, but now I'm concerned. She's been showing a little confidence issues and I thought it was because she got scared the first time she heard the whip, but now I'm thinking it could just be genetic |
by Blitzen on 25 June 2012 - 22:52 |
| Understood. |
by richram on 25 June 2012 - 23:14 |
| You should read the AKC's requirements to register a kennel. If you do, you'll see why I chose not to go the AKC route. I breed for purpose not numbers. They're one of the reasons for so many poorly bred dogs of all breeds. Richard |
richram by YogieBear on 25 June 2012 - 23:49 |
| Macrowe1.......I don't think it is time to give up on your girl......which it kinda sounds like you are.. we all look at our dogs when there is an "issue" and wonder if it is genetic.....at least I do...... Yes - it is possible that you were mislead.........but even if both parents were OFA excellent.......they can still throw bad hips...that isnt a guarantee your dog will have good hips...it is only comfort in hoping your pup will have good hips.....if you want piece of mind about your girl - get her prelims done....... you can go thru the sv - now - no prelims - a stamp......let me know if you wish to persue it currently......that might give you some piece of mind.....dunno........ ZW scores are in Germany - not something thru OFA - these dogs were marketed as OFA - they don't have ZW........so this isn't in the equation of these dogs in this pedigree. Even with a awesome pedigree - great parents -both with excellent hips, "world champions to boot", a warranty you think is awesome (hips, genetic defect, etc) you still have a puppy and it is a crap shoot..... Disappoint comes even with those pups....... Don't sell your girl short too soon because you have a image of maybe you were scammed.......... You girl is what you make of her- and tomorrow - she will still be the same girl you purchase that you thought that had parents with OFA excellent hips as well as schutzhund titles.........Nothing has changed except your perseption. Yogie |
YogieBear by macrowe1 on 26 June 2012 - 00:01 |
| Thanks Richard. & Yogie, yea if you know of a vet nearby that does sv, I'd love to go ahead and get it done. And thanks, I know I don't need to think of her as any different than she is. She's made it this far without any problems. I just know there were at least 3 litters by this imparticular male, and I've talked to a couple of their owners and they're just as mad as I am, and have gone through worse than I have. I mean, my girl is no less than what she was yesterday. But I'm scared what happened with them in not being able to register a litter in the future. I mean I'm almost positive that she's full registration, but then again so was the other dog's owner. Have to go back over my contract... But yes if you know of a vet to do sv hips now, I think I'd feel better about it. |
by swingfield on 26 June 2012 - 01:48 |
| Its funny.. the breeder keeps in touch with us.. call us every night.. answers all of your questions.. You feel confident you did the right thing..it feels right. You get the dog and are happy.. then "poof" .. you never hear from them again.. to wait for AKC papers .. due to the late process of the foreign dog registration dept.. because the person that works there has been "sick".... sigh... makes you (me) feel like your judgement was a "bit" off... and you know you can read people... I hope all turns out well for you!! Good Luck !! sherry |
swingfield by macrowe1 on 26 June 2012 - 02:02 |
| Understand the feeling Sherry! I try to keep contact with him, keep him updated with pictures and titles and training and whatnot. But he can't give me any information on the dam, wont' answer me about the male in question. Just crappy breeders! I'm so lucky with my newest! Couldn't ask for better and more thorough breeders! |
by B.Andersen on 26 June 2012 - 03:11 |
| Ask for a copy of the dogs scorebook if SCH IPO etc or if other titles they will have the actual titles that can show copies or scanned etc. Easy enough to ask for. Any person or breeder should be proud to show health certs and titles especially if they trained and titled the dog . |
by KennelvonArizona on 26 June 2012 - 20:53 |
| I as a breeder supply a complete folder with copies of everything the dogs have accomplished. Hip and elbow certification, copies of scorebooks , breeder surveys, and and and. Ask the breeders to give you that info. Sometimes I have less from the stud, but my girls have all complete records. It is a must to offer that to new owners. |
KennelvonArizona by YogieBear on 27 June 2012 - 00:31 |
| Kennel vom Arizona......you stated ..Sometimes I have less from the stud, but my girls have all complete records. ...why would you breed with a dog that is "less than your female".........Just a question mind you...........if you stud out......why would you pick a male that is "less than" your female.......you have more paperwork? you breed with males that dont have any paperwork? You obviously ask them to breed - I dont solicit females to breed with my boy..........bitches owners usually call me..... I dont get this..means your females might not be equal to my male......! ....those who contact me for my stud - know who he is- what he has produced as well as they like him and feel it would be an honor to have offspring out of him.........no honor - no shame - no breeding...simple as that............ ...even if you have "more" paperwork........males as well as females are dime a dozen....... if it is only money...... but your bitch doesnt have something to offer my breeding program......move on.....I dont care if you have a million dollars - no breeding will take place. your paperwork will be equal.........lol or my paperwork will be more than yours...........but I dont understand your statement.......please clarify.........I do take exception.......... yogie |
by KennelvonArizona on 28 June 2012 - 04:01 |
| This is not what I meant. What I am saying is that I am very good with my paperwork, I have documented every bit of my females. And I share everything I have from my females. But not everybody is that good, paperwork is overwhelming. If I have shown my dogs I give a copy of the results for example. The folder I give the new owners might have 10 pages of info of my girls, whereas I have from the male only 8. This has absolutely nothing to do with down breeding or not being worthy one of the other, it is a matter how good you file and keep track of all the paperwork. |
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