German Shepherd Dog > Is this Von Willebrands, allergic reaction, or auto immune? have you ever seen this? (42 replies)

by Bhaugh on 24 June 2012 - 18:36
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What state are you in? valley Fever?  Did the pred do anything to lesson the spots? I personally would NOT treat with antibiotics unless you knew for sure what you were dealing with. Mange?

Fawndallas: Although I agree that pred is a not so good med as it suppresses the immune system and I only use it as an absolute last choice,  Im not sure I agree with your statement about the kidneys. If someone has to put the dog on a long term med such as this I would be asking two questions. 1. Why and 2. Is the dog terminal without it (less adrenal disease)

I have a dog on pred now for a tumor on his face that if I were to remove would be far worse than the pred because of where its located. He is 7 so I will give the maintenance dose and keep the tumor small enough to keep the pain at bay.
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by Abby Normal on 24 June 2012 - 19:43
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Poor poor dog, that looks most unpleasant. Hope you get it resolved soon. I too don't agree about the statement about kidneys and prednisolone. I had a dog on a low dose of pred long term, and she never had any kidney problems. So far as I can see, this is not mentioned as an adverse/long term problem with it. There are many others, but kidney failure doesn't seem to be one of them. It is a drug that you have to be very careful with, but it has it's place.
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by Maureen on 25 June 2012 - 12:55
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Update on Lucy.  Her skin over her entire body is a shade of pink or red, and more solid in color now, rather than splotchy like the picture above.  Her head and ears swelled up a bit and are now one of the main areas affected.  Her ears are deep red, as is the skin on her head.  It is causing her discomfort, and she stopped eating yesterday morning.  She is acting similiar to how she did when this all started, but not quite as agitated.  This is an inflamatory issue, but we cannot determine the cause.

We did blood tests for a complete tick disease panel and one for auto-immune diseases.  Everything came up normal.  We could do further testing for auto-immune disease as there are many types out there.   We tested for the most likely auto-immune diseases.  To do further testing for auto-immune would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, be very expensive, and we tested for any that could fit her symptoms. 

We decided not to do the skin biopsy due to the nature of her symptoms and the way it is traveling over her entire body.  It was worse on the back half of her body the first 5 or 6 days.  Now it is worse on the front 1/2 of her body.  So, we are seeing changes, just not all good.  The leg area we shaved has changed to a light pink/purple shade and looks a bit better.

Our Vet at this point thinks it could be one of the following: 
1. Auto-immune disease (in which case if this goes away it will most likely come back again)

2. A bacterial infection either from her own body, or the environment.  However, she should have responded to the drugs if this was the case.

3. A toxin in the environment that she is reacting to (plant or otherwise), however our other 3 dogs are fine.  And, we should have seen some indication in the bloodwork for her body functions.

4. An un-known virus.  Our Vet has 3 other cases right now that are all inflamatory related, just not exactly like Lucy's.  The other dogs also show completely normal blood test results, all body functions are normal, no fever, and are also not responding as would be expected to meds.  A couple of them have gone on to specialists with no results too).


We are currently treating her with Benadryl (which does seem to give her releif), and Doxycycline (sp?).  We are also adding the prednisone back to the regiment.  And, we cool her down by rinsing her with cold well water (this helps the heat in her skin a lot, and she seems much more comfortable afterwards).  This morning she woke me up at 3:15am and was acting similiar to how she did when this all started, agitated, panting, and asking for help.  I took her outside, she drank a bit, then brought her in, filled up a big bag with ice and held it on various areas of her body for 3 or 4 minutes.  This helped her get more comfortable.  I also gave her more benadryl and that really seemed to help combined with the cool comfort of the ice pack.

So, today we start the prednisone again.  And, we are putting her back on chicken and rice to see if she will eat.  Fortunately my husband is able to work from home for the most part.  So, Lucy has been in air conditioning most of the time.

I will mention to my vet the following suggestions, so thanks for the input!:
Pemphigus disorder, systemic lupus erythematosus, and the Temaril-P Antibiotecs.

Maureen

 

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by hexe on 25 June 2012 - 13:47
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Maureen, I know you already indicated that there hasn't been any change in her food or environment, but--of everything she eats or has contact with, was any of it a new bag/box/carton/bottle that was just opened prior to Lucy developing these clinical signs?  There's always the possibility that a particular batch of any product may be tainted in some way, or there was a subtle change in formula that the manufacturer wasn't required to indicate, which Lucy is sensitive to although the other dogs are not...

Next question:  had Lucy been swimming in any natural water source (pond/lake/etc.) before she developed these issues?  With the recent high temperatures in the US, there's been an increase in algae bloom in ponds, lakes, reservoirs, etc., and some species of algae can cause severe illness in dogs, including skin involvement (secondary bacterial infections can become established as well).

If you don't start seeing marked improvement soon, you may want to consider having Lucy admitted to the vet's to see if a change in environment has any beneficial effect--if the cause of her condition DOES happen to be something she's being exposed to in her home environment, removal from that environment may help you and your vet narrow down exactly what the culprit is.

I can only begin to imagine how frightening this has to be for you, the not knowing what's at the root of this odd condition, let alone how long she's going to be affected and what can be done to relieve her discomfort...hoping an effective treatment is identified, as well as the source of the problems, soon!

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by starrchar on 25 June 2012 - 14:52
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I'm so sorry to read that Lucy is not improving. Maybe it is not the right antibiotic? There are a number of different kinds of anitbiotocs to treat various kinds of bacteria. This has got to be so scary and upsetting, not to mention your poor girl must be terribly uncomfortable. I really feel for you and I hope that a diagnosis will be made soon and/or the vet will be able find something that will help clear this up.

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by Maureen on 25 June 2012 - 16:24
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Some additional info about Lucy.

There are no lesions on her skin, or bumps.  Her skin is just pink, red, or purple depending on how bad the inflammation is at a given time. 
And, her skin is hot to the touch. (we have been giving her ice cold rinses, seems to help with the heat)
And, now we are seeing some swelling.

She does not have a fever. 

Her skin is hot to the touch, especially when the color is darker.  Her head and ears were not impacted until about 5 days in.  Her ears and forehead looked swollen when the color is a darker red.  It is really bothering her with the ears. 

She is not itching or licking at her skin at all.

Rather the inflamation seems to cause her pain.  Most likely from the heat the inflamed skin is putting off, and some swelling.  We did not notice any swelling until it went up to her head and ears.  Now we can see some swelling on her belly too. 
Please note, the rest of her body is still some shade of pink, red or purple.  it is just that some areas seem to react more as the inflamation moves around on her body.  
Her head and ears were not affected until about 5 days into this. 

Good advice on moving her to a different environment, will keep that as a next option. 

She has no access to any open water source like a stream or lake, etc.
We are in Maryland.
We are on well water, with a whole house filter.
The other 3 dogs are all in good health.

Thanks everyone for your input. 
Maureen
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by Rass on 25 June 2012 - 17:16
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The clear blood panels are the thing that makes this so damning. 

My first thought looking at the original picture was impetigo.. but that is usually young dogs and there are usually bumps.  The other thought is cellulitis.  Both these should have shown something in the blood work. 

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by Sherman-RanchGSD on 25 June 2012 - 22:03
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Yes, the unknown, less commonly suspeected viral or bacterial infection.. I am glad to hear your vet is open to such possibilities. Look how many people were misdiagnosed  with things like MSRA and West Nile virus, etc before more accurate clinical tests were demanded...

And I would not rule out contamination or infection from food sources either..regardless of how the other dogs..
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by Sherman-RanchGSD on 25 June 2012 - 22:12
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OOPS regardless of how other dogs are. Like 1 kid gets the chicken pox..they dont all always get at same time..etc.

I have seen similar looking in a newspaper article in the region when certain lakes get a bacteria and that is what the people looked like.. they also get flue symptoms and aches and pains.. not all get fever. Spider bites, bug bites, beetle bites... they can carry such things too.

Hopefully it is something that will pass when it runs its course..or the proper meds help

Has she had recent vaccination. yes could be allergic reaction to that if so or a botched batch and yaaa that does too happen.

Could there be anything like insulation or other toxic materials etc that she could have brushed thru.. all ideals.. I am sure your vet will help you get to the root, so keep on plugging and best wishes for her!


Debi
 

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by DebiSue on 28 June 2012 - 03:13
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Thought I would give you an update on my girl Echo and her spots...they are clearing up with the medicine we've been using, (EnteDerm) once a day since Saturday.  You might want to try it just in case it is a fungus of some sort.  Echo is almost completely clear.
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by hexe on 28 June 2012 - 05:11
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Maureen, some reference material for you and your vet to consider:


 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2978996/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381769

http://www.vh.ntu.edu.tw/tasam/jvcs/JVCS2008.1(3)/JVCS2008.1(3).16.pdf

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-3164.1999.00143.x/abstract

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wsava/2011/69.pdf

http://www.mckeevervetderm.com/media/bf755fd93ec8ee85ffff80ebffffd502.pdf

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by ziegenfarm on 28 June 2012 - 05:21
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i keep checking back to see if there is any news on this poor dog's skin condition.
hope the dog is getting better.  let us know if you learn anything.
pjp
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by hexe on 29 June 2012 - 02:07
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<bump>
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by hexe on 29 June 2012 - 18:32
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<bump>

Can't get this bizarre case out of my head...
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by Pharaoh on 29 June 2012 - 23:56
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Maureen,

How is your dog doing.

I too, keep thinking about her.
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by Bhaugh on 30 June 2012 - 02:31
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This may sound odd but have considered an endoscopy? The reason I say this is I had a dog with really bad skin problems. All tests came back clear. HOWEVEr after he passed, I requested an autopsy and it was determined that it was the small intestine. The vet told me had I done this (like who knew) I would have been able to see how bad the intestine was and tried to treat it.
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by hexe on 01 July 2012 - 05:10
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<bump>
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by fawndallas on 12 July 2012 - 17:50
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Any updates?
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by hexe on 14 July 2012 - 05:51
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<bump>

Maureen, how's your girl doing? Hopefully, no news is good news....
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by hexe on 14 July 2012 - 15:17
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bump
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