German Shepherd Dog > Expert Opinions on this SL linebreeding for working abilities (64 replies)
Expert Opinions on this SL linebreeding for working abilities
by djc on 14 June 2012 - 20:30
|Here is a breeding that I am most likely planning on doing in August. Just want to get the sl work producing experts opinions. I don't know it all so that's why I am putting it out there for those in the know to look at.|
Thanks in advance.
by Bob McKown on 14 June 2012 - 20:48
Just to let you know a Ex is a has been and a spert is a drip under pressure or so says Benny Hill.
by brynjulf on 14 June 2012 - 23:14
|I can only speak for 3 of the dogs in the pedigree. Ghandi, Hillo and Tony. All three males worked as good as top WL dogs and they passed it on to their progeny. I have had my hands on Hillo and liked him very very much!!!|
by Western Rider on 15 June 2012 - 00:16
There are many who, with good reason, would feel that Amigo would lead this group in all areas. He was that good and passed it on.
by Gustav on 15 June 2012 - 00:38
|You really need to post the whole pedigree of the breeding. Hillo is the same line as Tony and Furia. What are the other components genetically. Curious as to how much of Canto's line is in the equation, also Mutz, or Marko, or Bodo/Bernd. That information can strengthen it or weaken it. Of course I'm not an expert but just a has been (ex), as was so graciously pointed out.|
by Dog1 on 15 June 2012 - 02:02
|This one isn't too hard to figure out. Easy to read that combination if you know where the dogs come from. It's Griff and Vogue. Two dogs from working ability with working ability. Should produce working ability. There may be some kind of explosion with Hillo in there.|
by brynjulf on 15 June 2012 - 02:11
Dog1 I couldnt agree more! While I really like him, he may have produced just a tich to hot for some :)
by Championl on 15 June 2012 - 02:26
|Before even knowing it was griff/vogue, just based on the linebreeding and seeing some of the dogs I check for first in any pedigree, I would ask to be put on the waiting list for a litter like this without any hesitation. DJC and dog1 have the same breeding goals in mind as I do! Would be very happy to be updated on if and when the breeding takes place|
by ziegenfarm on 15 June 2012 - 05:54
|it pleases me to no end that there are folks concerned about working ability in showline dogs.|
i will go to sleep tonight smiling.
by Gustav on 15 June 2012 - 11:04
|Unfortunately for me I'm not as familiar with the pedigree of Vogue and Griff unless I see it. I take the word of all that the phenotype of the parents are strong as confirmed by several posters. I still place a lot of value on the genetic foundation. In particular for consistency in a litter. You see, I feel that most of the dogs that we hear about are usually the better ones in a litter. Kinda like if you breed two Ofa excellent dogs that come from litters that have numerous displays tic dogs in them.......you may get another OFA excellent or two but you will also get more dysplstic dogs than the surface would give to believe. I don't doubt that these two dogs are good working dogs, but I place a high value on seeing how the total pedigree meshes and what are we strengthening and what are we weakening. To me that is the foundation of long term breeding for people who put maintaining working at a premium as do the people in this thread.|
by djc on 15 June 2012 - 13:12
|Exactly right Randy. I REALLY like this combination. Although some have pointed out to me that Griff has had excellent training from the get go and not all of what we see is genetic. BUT to me there is PLENTY of genetics in there and just the fact that he took to the training so well speaks volumes. Griff's Mom has even better work than Griff, from what I hear and she was Universal Siegerin to prove her abilities. No dog is perfect but this sounds like a good shot at it? Hips look good as well as health and conformation. Just want to get as many opinions as I can before making my final descision.|
Here is the full pedigree of the potential litter. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=583599&modir=568440
by djc on 15 June 2012 - 13:19
|Just to throw more into the discussion, |
The other breeding I am considering is : http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=428536&modir=568440
This is a total out cross but have heard excellent things about Tiras's work as well as the production of it.
by Ibrahim on 15 June 2012 - 13:37
|Wow that V Castlebrooks Vogue v Whirling Thunder conformation, structure and substance is breath-taking, she's so beautiful.|
by djc on 15 June 2012 - 13:45
|Thank you Ibrahim!|
by ColdWaterCreek on 15 June 2012 - 15:37
|This female is very lovely and with the bloodlines behind her and her having the Schh3, what happened at the USCA sieger? She shows as INS on the results site without a placement.|
by djc on 15 June 2012 - 15:54
|Yes, sadly she was focused on the judge at the USCA Sieger show, and was completely surprised by the helper jumping out just 3 ft. in front of her. She was looking back at the judge at the moment the helper jumped out. As instructed, the helper was all forward motion with stick raised and yelling, no stepping back for the bite or moving sideways, which is all good and would have been fine if she knew what was going on, but it was just all confusing to her. If she has one fault it's that she needs more defense. This surprise put her into defense, or should have and she just shut down. It is partially my fault for not building her up in the approach, but I was afraid she would go after the judge. Others have told me I should have anyway because the helper would have saved him. This was my first working class sieger show so, I really didn't know what to do when her focus was elsewhere. the other factor was that she was warmed up by "Uri" Katherina's"other half"... sorry I don't know their last names, but they are from Germany and recently moved OH USA. He was impressed also, but then they took an unexpected 10 mn break so there was no benefit from that before hand. She does have unmatched and incredible focus and prey drive! Almost to the point of being crazy focused. ie: if no toy/ball etc is around she will find a stick, twig, leaf, blade of grass and focus on that until you move it for her to grab. Continuously! Anytime she's out with a human, this is what she does. Waits for things to move or throws them at you! lol She has very nice bite work as seen in her gallery on her pedigree under "breed survey". Mike Diehl and Flinks have both worked her and have been greatly impressed, to the point Flinks said "If all showline dogs worked this well I would not have a problem with them". So, I will be working on her defense and bringing it to the point where we don't have to worry about surprises. Afterall is said and done I am, of course looking to improve work and the dog. This is all still very sad and upsetting to me as most everyone including those close to the judge, said she would have VA'd. :(|
by djc on 15 June 2012 - 17:29
|Here is a video of Griff and Karen last weekend at the regional Sch championship: Not just Sieger show bite work|
Yes, definitely trained well but this is NOT all training!!
I've seen well trained dogs not do nearly as well.
Would be interesting to hear your opinions on this.
by UglyK9 on 15 June 2012 - 17:58
by Gustav on 15 June 2012 - 18:24
|The video on Griff was very nice work. Judge Mannes certainly knows good strong dogs....that's for sure....lol. He owns the sire of my current pup. Very respectable score under Elmar. I like the genetics of the breeding upon review of the pedigree, the ins would definitely give me some concern. Still, overall I think the genetics would probably produce good overall dogs.|
by brynjulf on 15 June 2012 - 18:25
|Debby, don't be to hard on yourself for your Seiger result. !@it happens :) |
Thank you for posting the vid of Griff it is always a pleasure to watch him and Karen in action. This team is so amazing because you can always watch Karens body language. She always looks like she is going out there to win and it transfers down the leash. Really Really nice and he is still such a young dog.