German Shepherd Dog > Hock walker? (326 replies)
by Felloffher on 26 June 2012 - 18:22
Kuma (the dog in the video) isn't a dog that I bred, I only raised and trained him. Sorry if I gave that impression. I would have used the term correct angulation to describe my ideal dog, but there isn't a benchmark for what we all deem correct. I would describe the majority of WL's to be moderate.
To everyone else I offended. It's probably not a short list. LOL.
I'm very opinionated and call a spade a spade. It has nothing to with being crabby, more than likely I'm just an asshole. My condescending remarks were in responce to Vonissk's comment about the sheep that joanro addressed. I also take issue with terms like the "golden middle", I don't believe that a high drive working dog is any less capable of being a good family dog then their watered down counterparts. It's not like WL's need an actual job to be happy, take them out throw a ball for them, walk them and they are happy. If a person can't take the time and effort to obedience train and excersise their dog then they have no business owning one in the first place. I have and have had some good dog's, all with the exception of one are good in the house, with children and prey animals.
I don't want to run anyone off the board, so Sunsilver please don't take what I say to heart. My Min Pin comment was a little mean, but he's a kick ass little dog. LOL.
by Keith Grossman on 26 June 2012 - 18:25
|"It has nothing to with being crabby, more than likely I'm just an asshole."|
Yes but we all have a right to decide for ourselves what type of asshole we prefer. LOL...
by Sunsilver on 26 June 2012 - 19:11
|Not necessarily but I've been fooled. Did it have a head like a collie?|
No, but it didn't have one like a chow, either, and it wasn't black and red. For an ASL, it had pretty good secondary sex characteristics, and the typical big ears of the ASL. As ASL go, it was fairly moderate in angulation, but that loooong upper thigh definitely gave it away.
It might have had a bit of German WL in it, but I'm reasonably sure it was pure ASL. I've seen a lot of mixes, including my own GSL/ASL cross, and they didn't look like this dog.
by Blitzen on 26 June 2012 - 20:42
|I swore I'd never talk about my dog here and I'll probably regret I did.|
My female is an AKC CH., she does not have a head like a collie, she is not a hockwalker and her temperament is steady. In the last year, with 2 months off from being in season minus another 6 weeks off when raising a litter, she has earned her BH, AD, RN, CD. That makes 4 titles earned in less than 8 months. She is currently in training for her CDX and I hope to show her for her IPO1 early next year. Will she make it, I don't know. She tracks, and her OB phase is steady, but will she bite a sleeve, I'm not sure just yet.
This dog has had 6 homes in 4 years through no fault of her own. I am her 7th owner; that would be enough to break the spirit of many GSD's, not her. She gives 110% to everything she does, nothing is half way with her. No one will ever be able to convince me or anyone else who knows this dog that she is lacking in temperament or conformation because she is 3/4 ASL, 1/4 GSL.
A good dog is a good dog regardless of it's lines.
by marjorie on 26 June 2012 - 22:03
|___ >A good dog is a good dog regardless of it's lines.|
AMEN! There are good ASL and bad ones, just as there are good german dogs and bad ones. Tarring all am breds or german breds with the same brush is just being ignorant. Its a childish way to think, IMO.
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by Markobytes on 27 June 2012 - 03:33
Sunsilver has been around long enough to be an expert at identifying the different lines. I may not agree with her 100% of the time, however she deserves the respect gained by her knowledge. I would be saddened if she were to leave this board as I know without a doubt that she has saved the lives of dogs by her timely posts.
by darylehret on 27 June 2012 - 03:45
Sounds like a commonsense approach to ANY breeding program to me, not just a mixing of show and workinglines. Anyway, I think it bears repeating, "don't get too happy and keep choosing your flag carriers in same criteria".
by Ibrahim on 27 June 2012 - 07:37
|Thanks Daryl, yes it is not meant for show work mix, it is a general breeding advice, I think it says if you select correctly within the show GSDs, in a few generation one can improve on temperament.|
by Louis Donald on 27 June 2012 - 09:18
|Good work Ibrahim and nice to see a thread that has such a high degree of interesting comment.|
by Gustav on 27 June 2012 - 11:11
|I don't think anything holds true for all cases. And many of us have seen examples of great dogs in all lines. But we seem to forget about the many many people who have gotten a dog from specific lines and the dog did not exhibit the traits that were expected or represents the breed. If I go get say an ASL dog tomorrow, what are the chances I will get a dog like Blitzen?? If those chances are high, then I say the line is in good shape........but over the years, I have had countless number of people reach out to me and say that they were referred to me because they heard my dogs had good temperament, AND they had had a ------- line dog and it was full of weak temp or health issues. My point is what about these people? If for every Blitzen's experience there are as many or more with negative experiences......where are we. Should we encourage this with a 50/50 chance of not getting a good confident representative of the breed.? I struggle with the lack of integrity in breeders today to achieve what they want at the greater good of the breed.|
by Keith Grossman on 27 June 2012 - 12:13
|"Sunsilver has been around long enough to be an expert at identifying the different lines. I may not agree with her 100% of the time, however she deserves the respect gained by her knowledge. I would be saddened if she were to leave this board as I know without a doubt that she has saved the lives of dogs by her timely posts."|
No one is asking Sunsilver to leave the forum. I got my first GSD about 40 years ago so I might have picked up a little knowledge about the breed myself...
by Blitzen on 27 June 2012 - 12:48
Based on what I have seen myself, IMO, none of the lines in this breed are in very good shape. That's not likely to ever improve as long as breeders can't see what they need to do to improve their dogs especially if it means bringing in some new blood from a different "line".
by Blitzen on 27 June 2012 - 12:49
|What's your criteria, Daryl?|
by vonissk on 27 June 2012 - 13:16
|Ah shoot Blitzen I wasn't going to say anything else but you know I have to agree with your post and the shape the breed is in.|
Also thanks for putting up Bev's accomplishments and not only is she talented she is beautiful. Good luck with the IPO.
by Blitzen on 27 June 2012 - 13:38
|Thanks for the good luck wish with the IPO1, Vonissk. She will be my first effort at that so that will be a big disadvantage for her. I've never been comfortable talking about my own dogs, especiallly on a board where ASL have such an ugly reputation.|
I think she beautiful too LOL. She's my best friend
by Rik on 27 June 2012 - 14:20
|Reputations, in dogs or men, are pretty much earned.|
by Keith Grossman on 27 June 2012 - 14:27
|"Reputations, in dogs or men, are pretty much earned."|
by darylehret on 28 June 2012 - 00:41
|What's your criteria, Daryl?|
I favor all of the same ideals in a dog as Fellofher does, but my personal criteria for breed selection is conducted on a case by case basis, none of the details of which I care to post here for your ridicule. My "aim", if you care to know, is a versatile dog well suited for the environments of SPORT, WORK, and FAMILY. It's my opinion that too many dog's might be well suited to one or two of these areas, but not as often all three. I enjoy a dog that's energetic on command, cooperative, relentless in fight drive, good natured, clear headed.... but who doesn't?
by Blitzen on 28 June 2012 - 01:54
|Ridicule? Because I think that ethical breeders should xray, health check, and title their dogs before breeding them?|
by darylehret on 28 June 2012 - 05:38
|Talk about beating a dead horse, call me unethical if it makes you feel better. If you want to point out my failures, then let's hear specifics. I'll admit my unorthodox ways, and remind you it's none of your particular business what I do. Spare me your outstanding rolemodel philosophy, because pointing fingers isn't going to get you anywhere with me.|