German Shepherd Dog > PennHIP Stud List (13 replies)
PennHIP Stud List
by dAWgESOME on 18 May 2012 - 00:56
We already have a nice long list of DM tested studs & I'd like to start a PennHIP stud list.
I have been doing some research and have a growing interest in using the PennHIP method -vs- OFA
Please post pedigrees, photos, links and any other pertinent info regarding your studs
by aceofspades on 18 May 2012 - 01:16
|I wish more vets were trained to do PennHip. The nearest vet to me that does them is 8 hours drive. So OFA it is for us.|
by Donnerstorm on 18 May 2012 - 01:26
|Here goes another thumb up the nose question but what is PennHip? I have never heard of it.|
by dAWgESOME on 18 May 2012 - 01:27
That's unfortunate, I wish there was more too - I must be really lucky, I have about 6 to choose from 50 or less miles away from me. I'll still use OFA for elbows and DM tests but doubt I'll ever have them do hips again (BTW the president of OFA has her clinic 45 mins from me, so I'm getting it done right, I just don't think its very accurate using a one dimensional subjective opinion no matter how good they are at "positioning")
So there is my mini rant on that.... topic
with that said any x-ray is better then NO x-ray
by dAWgESOME on 18 May 2012 - 01:38
|@ Donnerstorm - I did not know what it was just a few years ago|
Here is a link http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Default.aspx?alias=research.vet.upenn.edu/pennhip
The short-ish "layman's" description - hips are x-rayed in 3 different angles, measured and given a number. There is a mathematical formula used to evaluate the depth/tightness of the hip socket -vs- an opinion given on a one dimensional image. The vet I went to today has seen many OFA "excellent" dogs fall in to the lowest PennHIP percentile (extremely loose hips).
by BlackthornGSD on 18 May 2012 - 02:34
And did they develop DJD and experience discomfort/pain in their hips as they aged?
by dAWgESOME on 18 May 2012 - 04:37
|@ Christine - I did not ask that question, I'll follow up with that quiry - and post asap|
I'd also like to find out how many passing OFA (fair - excellent) dogs develop DJD and experience discomfort/pain in their hips as they age? Do you have that information?
There is no silver bullet to extinguish this problem in our breed IMHO but the value of OFA excellent has been substantially downsized when it comes to selecting breeding dogs. It really was impressive at first but means less to me now then ever
by vtgsd on 18 May 2012 - 14:08
I too am becoming more interested in PenHip but my one concern is that the breed average changes over time depending on how many of one breed is in the database so what may seem Good today may in all actuality be not so good and so on, if i'm understanding correctly;) Please let me know if I am wrong.
PennHip has to date 10,186 German Shepherds is their database
OFA has (hips only) 83,370 in their database
I would also love to see not only a list of studs with PennHip but also a list of breeders and some willing to share their success with improvement of overall hip production using this method instead of OFA. Of course I would also be interested in hearing about any negative experiences people may have had as well.
by Psycht on 18 May 2012 - 15:11
|vtgsd - Yes, the average changes over time as more dogs are tested but it is still pretty gradual - at least in my breed. In my breed (ACDs), the median result is essentially the same as it was approximately 6.5 years ago. My friend keeps the informal list of results for our breed which is significantly less of an onerous task than it would be for a breed like the GSD but it is still nice to have: http://wayoutacd.com/documents/acd-pennhip-scores-alpha-list.pdf|
Because Pennhip is one of the accepted tests for CHIC for my breed OFA will list Pennhip results in their database (granted there is a one time 25.00 fee per dog to add non-OFA results) so I list my dogs' Pennhip results on the OFA page.
Pennhip recommends breeding dogs from the 50%+ range. With that said, I bred my OFA Good but Pennhip 40% bitch (.53/.38) to a OFA Good and Pennhip 90% dog (.33/.38) last year and just Pennhip'd the puppy I kept from the litter and he is 70% (.34/.43). So it was a pretty good improvement upon his dam. With that said, his dam has a strong horizontal pedigree with Pennhip as both her full sister and brother are 90% and I believe her mother is 80% for the breed.
I do Pennhip at the same time I prelim elbows and then OFA hips and elbows at 2. I do prefer Pennhip's system. My bitch was actually Pennhip'd twice - once at about 9-10 months by one vet and then my regular vet was getting certified and used my bitch as one of his certification dogs when she was around 3. Two different vets around 2.5 years apart and the distraction levels were exactly the same.
by BlackthornGSD on 18 May 2012 - 15:23
|I'd also like to find out how many passing OFA (fair - excellent) dogs develop DJD and experience discomfort/pain in their hips as they age? Do you have that information?|
OFA does have this info on their site, I think--I'll see if I can find it. I personally don't know any OFA Good/Excellent dogs who experienced hip problems as they aged--that's out of 5 personal dogs who were OFA good and over age 6. I can't think of any I've heard about either, that belonged to friends or puppy buyers.
Anecdotally, does anyone here have a GSD who was OFA cleared who later had DJD/hip problems?
Edited to add:
I emailed OFA in March 2011 and asked:
by vtgsd on 18 May 2012 - 16:32
|Super information! Thank you for taking the time to reply!|
That would be interesting to hear as well;)
by GSDPACK on 18 May 2012 - 20:14
|My male is 0.19, 0.30 Nice hips! NO DJD and when I did x-ray to see how he is about a year ago, there was pretty much no change at all. still beautiful hips at 5 years old. Normal elbows.|
by Avery Hill Kennels on 19 May 2012 - 03:07
|Hip dysplasia is the rate of hip accelerated mobility/degeneration to say that any dog weather OFA excellent or Penn hip will not experience HD is FALSE.|
To diagnose HD/ED in a dog that has early onset of HD/ED which indicated bad genetics or poor care. That is what OFA and Penn hip are for, but all dogs developed HD/ED as some point in their lives do to aging.
The goal is to catch dogs that show symptoms of early onset and to take them out of the gene pool. Because hip dysplasia is just basically rapid degenerative bone (which again is due to aging or poor care) but should not be seen in such an early age. Some dogs carry the genetics for early onset HD and some dogs just have poor care..nutrition,exercise(to much,not enough) stupid owners that feed poor quality food the list goes on .....
by dAWgESOME on 19 May 2012 - 19:42
|Calling all PennHIP studs - Heloooooooooo out there |
Thanks for posting your guy GSDPACK - I like him even more then before