German Shepherd Dog > 6 Month Old--Weak Rear (99 replies)
by Ibrahim on 20 May 2012 - 20:56
|Are you talking about Paer vom Hasenborn? He's the Sir of your puppy?|
by Rass on 21 May 2012 - 00:30
|If you want answers to structural considerations, please look at this site:|
Surf around there.. you can learn a lot about structure.
As I said, I think you need to give him time. Yes.. he looks over angulated but they can change a LOT while growing.
Good luck! Keep us updated with info and photos!
by ggturner on 21 May 2012 - 02:18
|Perhaps have his back leg joints x-rayed (hock and patella). A friend of mine had a young male gsd that was part SL and over angulated. His hips checked out good, but his hind end was weak and he did not like to run a lot or jump. X-rays of his joints showed that he did not really have hock joints--genetic defect.|
by CMGSD on 21 May 2012 - 04:09
|No, Paer is a dog many local breeders are trying to incorporate into their program right now, including mine. He's not related to my puppy.|
Viking has no issue running. Seriously, he loves it, wobbliness and all. He also shows no trouble going over the a-frame in agility, handling the dog-walk (lowered of course), etc.
by Steel Magnolia on 21 May 2012 - 06:30
Seriously Erica.... I am not working with you to figure out if there is something wrong??? I answer all your emails, I even called you instead of email.... (You COULD pick up the phone and call me... ) You have gotten a lot of advice on this site that is the same I gave you! Badmouthing your breeder on the internet is not cool, and as you may have noticed... I don't get a lot (if any) criticism... I breed sound dogs... That doesn't mean that every now and then something could go wrong.. but it is not the norm by a long shot... You just keep looking and looking for something wrong, I guess you don't like him, and the way he looks....I get that.. give him back and I will replace him.. I even sent you pics of a littermate to compare... I suggested what food to feed and my other pups and dogs are doing great on it.. You have not listened to the recommendations I gave you... I told you to increase his food and change from the California Natural (NOT good food).. I suggested you get him more off leash exercise... I even encouraged you to do PennHIP and I am glad everything looks good so far and the spine is normal. He does have a lot of angulation! You need to let him grow up.... here is one of his brothers.... hardly an overangulated show dog...
by CMGSD on 21 May 2012 - 08:00
|I've kept you anonymous, 100%. I've posted pictures of Volkl and used them as an example to show why I was worried about Viking (because his brother looks so much healthier than him). I mentioned that his parents do not seem to have the problem. However, if something is wrong I do not feel it would be his food that is causing it. Not his exercise, because he's gotten more than enough (not a ton of running but he did run and every single day I spent hours with him working outside. You know this, and you even said you thought I was exercising him too much). Please do not think I am bad mouthing you, I am merely relaying related frustrations while keeping all parties anonymous. I sincerely apologize if that's what you think I'm doing (or if you think I'm trying to be cool or whatever), and will just repeat that I was only trying to get as many point of views as possible so I could make an informed decision. |
I never said all of your dogs were like that.
I am letting him grow up, and I've been defending the idea that he needs to just avoid taking a lot of tests and give the new food amount time to adjust before I do anything drastic because I do not believe it's good for a puppy to be subjected to test after test after test, especially not when he seems to be fine in terms of pain/activity level.
For the most part, we are on the same page, except for the fact that I keep being accused of not liking him when I love him.
by GatorDog on 21 May 2012 - 19:01
|I've been a long time lurker on this forum and didn't have much of anything to contribute until now. It is very obvious to me that OP is a very loving, caring, and concerned dog owner. I saw no mention of the breeder's name or kennel name whatsoever, so I'm not sure where "breeder bashing" is being metioned. If OP has an opinion about this puppy's breeding, then she is entitled to that opinion. Steel Magnolia, I understand that you bred this puppy? Do you really see no cause for concern with his conformation? It is pretty clear that with 4 pages of other people commenting on this very young puppy's extreme angulation that the owner is not the only one concerned with his appearance. You have not gotten any criticism because OP did not even mention your name or your kennel name. A puppy produced by one of YOUR BREEDINGS is being criticised. OP is not looking to try and find something wrong with this dog...There just clearly IS something very obviously wrong. If she didn't love the puppy, why wouldn't she have taken you up on your offer and gotten a replacement puppy? And to call her out by name and bring her personal life into this is crossing the line. Your defensive attacks are ridiculous. This is a very poor way to handle your business.|
by Hundmutter on 21 May 2012 - 20:38
Gator Dog is absolutely right to say this; many of us have become concerned about this puppy, both his conformation and his general appearance; and about his owner who has been doing her best to sort out the problems, without blaming you.
As the breeder you may not be directly at fault, that is yet to be determined. But I do think , reading 'between the lines', it looks as though you might not be ensuring puppy customers are quite as clued up on feeding needs etc as they could be, at the outset, - despite the questions you do ask them ? I hope that you take that as a well-intentioned criticism, as guidance for future litters ? In what information you offer to them along with their puppy - just making sure you know that they know the amounts to feed and number of meals to give, as sometimes people don't already realise puppies need more than adults to grow properly ? Just a friendly suggestion ! Sometimes it gets so we jump through the same hoops so often that we inadvertently stop including some details (especially if you are getting a lot of repeat customers coming back for their next dog).
by DDRCzechFan on 21 May 2012 - 22:21
|I had read this thread over a few times, and while I prayed for the puppy to either develop into a healthy adult or at least not live in pain (no OP did not state dog was in pain, from what I recall) I WILL comment on what the breeder has stated.|
I totally agree with GatorDog. What is said IN CONFIDENCE about someone's personal life needs to stay that way. Seriously. We ALL have had/have some health issues at one point or another, but that nasty High School mentality of "Let's point out the other person's faults so as to distract from my own and to move the focus from ME onto the other person" is utter nonsense. Seriously, you claim you've bred for 20yrs so you MUST at least be 20 years old - GROW UP. The original poster (who no-longer has the right of privacy because of your "outting") never mentioned your name, your kennel name, any of your dog's names, etc... Yet you have the right to list this person's name and something so deeply personal as a mental health disorder? How dare you.
It doesn't matter what business someone finds themselves in, there are ways to handle yourself professionally. You could've come on here, told the poster that you felt you had tried your best, offer the replacement one more time, but to reveal personal information when it wasn't done to you? It almost astounds me the lack of professionalism here.
by yellowrose of Texas on 21 May 2012 - 23:36
MY hats off to GATORDOG< HUNDSMUTTER:\> CZECHfAN AND OTHERS.
STEEL MAGNOLIA, YOU certainly are out of order and stand to be deleted by gsdmod as you cannot come on this site and mention names of people without their permission
This poster in no way gave any of us any idea of who where or names of you or your kennel..
He OR SHE, has the right to ask for our opinion
THE PUP HE POSTED PICTURES OF certainly has SOMETHING wrong WRONG , with it.
IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING I EVER PRODUCED AT THAT AGE OR BEFORE... SORRY BUT you are not the kind of person I would buy a dog from
You should have insisted, made this poster return this pup and given him a well structured and conformed pup .
He., she , obviously has made it known he/she is not happy with the way the dog is.. I hate to burst your bubble , but my pups are fed , nothing like you do, for sure..and they do not look or have any kind of scrawney look , over angulated or not, the look and the carriage are horrible.. I do not stuff any of my dogs and they do not look like that..
Stuffing a puppy with gobs of food won't make a difference, sorry poster but unless you locked this pup in a closet for a week at a time, small dinners will not make this pup look or have that ESCAPED look.
I certainly agree with Czechddrfan...you are very unprofessional in your reply.
I have replaced pups for bad hips and they surely didnt look anything like this pup..ALL bloodlines have faults and all bllodlines have some pups not fit for selling..this is ONE Of them
by Niesia on 22 May 2012 - 06:25
I would like to add my 'few cents'.
by Nellie on 22 May 2012 - 08:36
|They pup is way over angulated, 19yrs ago i had a pup like this at the same time he was a very poor eater, I am curious to know if the pup bunny hops when running,|
The best thing for him is swimming and then being allowed free running, no throwing balls excetra which causes sudden bursts on his joints, if ligaments are loose the hip joint will not stay seated and will cause damage to the ball and socket, . Feed him well , the only food that did work for my angulated dog was RAW, and free exercise with swimming, stop having him pull weights he is too young for this type of training. Hope the hips come back good, my boys hips were horrid, but he was one of the best dog's i have ever owned at jumping, and after the initial growing phases he never had problems again......Please note i only changed his food to RAW after he was a yr old and had developed, You boy is going to be a stunner when he matures
by Blitzen on 23 May 2012 - 12:25
|This puppy is clearly sickle-hocked as the result of having too much rear angulation. Very common in ASL's, getting to be more common in GSL's since SV judges are rewarding over-angulated dogs. He may improve a bit, but IMO he will always be a "hock walker" and compensate for his inability to straighten his hock joint by roaching his backline. It's not a fatal condition, but will probably prevent him from doing well in a performance venue. It has zip to do with his diet, exercise, etc. It's in the genes, baby.|
AKC people see it all the time in many breeds and have coined the term "sickle-hocked" to describe a dog with hocks that are shaped like sickles rather than being perpendicular to the ground when the dog stands naturally. Some dogs are worse than others. Every dog anatomy/movement book I've ever read show examples of sickle hocks and how they effect a dog's movement and performance.
BTW this dog does not have "downed pasterns". His pasterns are weak, that happens with many GSD puppies. Most times that improves with maturity; housing a dog with weak pasterns on a floor of pea gravel or walking it in sand may help. Downed pastern are a way different issue.
by Blitzen on 23 May 2012 - 13:08
|The brother pictured here is slightly sickle-hocked assuming he is standing with his hocks open as far as possible.|
by EddaSG on 28 May 2012 - 14:48
by sanjeeva on 13 July 2012 - 18:01
by sanjeeva on 13 July 2012 - 18:03
by fawndallas on 13 July 2012 - 18:41
|How is the puppy doing now after the diet change?|
by Hundmutter on 13 July 2012 - 19:41
|PM'd her to ask several days ago - so far no response.|
by vomzellmer on 14 July 2012 - 03:25
|the brothers back legs look very similar to posters puppy good example of "half frog" gsds|