German Shepherd Dog > Home/Family Protection Dog vs Police/Military Dog (38 replies)
by judron55 on 15 May 2012 - 12:42
|I've seen and worked numerous dogs coming in the US to be police K9....some make it some don't...haven't seen anything that impresses me....German Shepherd or Mal wise. Did see one nice sable shepherd bitch that was nice in protection and agile as hell....it ain't easy to find a good partner:-)|
by Gustav on 15 May 2012 - 20:34
|Bitework is about 10% of a good police dog....actually scent work is the strongest use for police work to include patrol dogs.|
by Gusmanda on 15 May 2012 - 23:49
|Along with scent work, I understand a big chunk of the use of a police dog is acting as a deterant, correct? They stopped airing where I live, but there was a program showing the Minneapolis-St Paul police k9 unit, the bad guys would very often freeze as soon as the dogs entered stage.|
by sonora on 16 May 2012 - 01:32
What are the exercises or training programme that is required for home /family protection.
i. e.a) intruders climbing over the fence into the compound.
b) Forced entry into the house etc. What other specific exercises is required?
Where can I find it on the net.?
What would a green dog that has the requirments and has been through basic training cost ?
Thank you kindly
by destiny4u on 16 May 2012 - 02:06
|i wouldnt start with having a man jump over your fence you start with a good pp trainer then eventually when your dog is ready you start testing it around your house in real life situations, the exercises you talk about seem like tests. You build a dog to that kind of level.|
a green dog is a dog that has a basic foundation a good starting foundation in bite work usually done in prey some touched in defense already, also again depends and has been raised properly 3k-7k depending on age lines is it breeding quality or not many diff factors play into this.
a lot people are going to try to rip you off they will sell you something and you will think it is good and u will get a nerve bag, a lot of personal protection trainers out there are scammers also and will try to selll you a dog and or try to take as much money from you as possible without working you and your dog the right way.
by desert dog on 16 May 2012 - 03:02
|Obedience, obedience, and obedience. If you don't have this you have a big problem. You can't find it on the internet. You need to locate a good trainer in your area that can train you and your dog at the same time. Never have someone come over the fence. I don't mean any disrespect but I can tell by your questions that you will both need help. Dogs are available at reasonable prices. Check Blackbull k9, he has a nice started young dog that looks to have a lot of potential. But training will never stop. good luck|
by Chaz Reinhold on 16 May 2012 - 04:34
|Only difference is that a police dog has a frequent buyer card at the local donut shop.|
by duke1965 on 16 May 2012 - 10:52
|IMO a good personal protectiondog starts with the natural abilities of the dog , from which I think they are around fewer and fewer , many dogs offered as PP dogs are not up fort the job , but most never have to proove themselves as their presence will do the job ,you only have a problem if the bad guy decides to go one step further|
A good dog you dont need to give a command to bite , only to out
by judron55 on 16 May 2012 - 11:30
|Bitework is about 10% of a good police dog|
bitework and obedience are the only thing I participate in....though I do like that tracking better than schutzhund! My thought was more on the stability aspect...can he mantrail along a train track while train is going by...:-)...track a man into a dark building...
by Gusmanda on 16 May 2012 - 15:23
|A good dog you dont need to give a command to bite , only to out|
by Gustav on 16 May 2012 - 19:59
|Ron, I agree with your examples....environmental sureness, I work with police dogs every week and help procure them....you'd be surprised how many dogs have monster grips and do good on field obedience but when they meet the slippery floors, metal stairs, stairs with no back, dark buildings at night with threat, heights, and things like you mentioned with trains.....they get cut out. Getting them to engage a bad guy is not as big a problem these days as these things....that's why the Mals are proliferating in police work.|
by Gusmanda on 16 May 2012 - 20:43
|Hey Gustav, do you think this has to do with dogs not getting enough exposure to different situations while young? or in general Mals having better nerves to deal with it?|
by ronin on 17 May 2012 - 19:59
|Apart from the tiny number of Military Dogs with Special Forces such as the Seal Teams/ SAS Sqdns, and I'm talking only double figures here, the majority of Military dogs receive very basic training, then get handled by someone with even less knowledge of dogs and almost NEVER get to bite or track in their entire careers.|
Police Dogs can receive excellent training from the big forces (LAPD/MetPol) but it varies for the smaller forces due to lack of resources. The key difference with Police K9's which makes them unique is they get to develop their training/skills through operational exposure. They need the defence and fight drive, but they also need the prey drive for the majority of work they do is searching and/or tracking. They need to be social due to working in close proximity to other officers/teams, and contact with the general public.
A lot of qualities are required. In terms of the PPD Dog, which in the USA where criminals use a lot of firearms you are basically talking about a "piece of mind" or "deterent dog". If you're attacked by multiple persons, an armed person or worse subject to a planned attack then you need to be looking well beyond a simple animal to protect you and your loved ones.
You can forgive a PPD that isn't enviromentally sound, has low prey drey, is unsocial etc. There is no Rin Tin Tin unfortunately, just hard on-going training, and luck that any attack is low level by a single unarmed offender. In South Africa & Brazil some familesjust have 3 small Pit Bulls, fast, cheap, hard to shoot and 2 of them will defintely get to the offender!
by myret on 17 May 2012 - 20:16
that is just it what I have been saying all the time about many schh dog and gsd many of them are fine on the field but when they are exposed på other enviroments they just dont cut , I see alot more mals doing good in this area than gsd because two thing mals have bigger drive and the drive is making the dog after the decoy or whatever at the same time a mal does not think so much about if things are dangerrous they just do it if they are in drive not many gsd have that
that is genetic not training
by myret on 17 May 2012 - 20:18
I dont belives it has much to do with nerve only alot drive is needed and a dogs that does not think that much but has the drive that makes him go and dont think if the things are dangerrous
by Gustav on 17 May 2012 - 22:45
|Myret and Ronin, I agree with both of you. Another component that is missing, is in sport we have sissified the dog to the point that success can come after 3 to 5 years of training....then this dog is bred. With Police/Military type dogs the dog has to learn a wide range of operational skills in a proscribed amount of time. This is important, as it indicates the dog's ability to learn and progress in a partnership of work with man. This is what the dog was made to do. Certain traits have to be prevalent (nerve, some biddability, prey drive, courage, environmental and noise insensitivities) and so on. You can't take six months to build up the bitework, or dessesitize to noise or slick surfaces, or work on their own in strange places and darkness. Many sport dogs have problems adjusting to new places to work, new people to work on, anything that isn't orderly, and on and on. Some of this is training, some is genetic, but the point is the dog shouldn't take 9 months to years to overcome these hurdles. Yet many many do....and then they are bred. We now have reached the point that it is hard to find a good German Sheoherd that will go through the "boot camp" of a police academy. The Mals as Ronin said either because of their drive or because they don't seem to let the environmental or noise issues stop them are more successful in terms of % that will complete the training in course time. Not saying Mals are better than GS....we all know a Rin Tin Tin that was the best Law Enforcement dog ever.....but it hard to find Rinny these days, I see it ALL the time. One last advantage Mals have are they are able to start and successfully complete police work at 12 months of age in many cases....rare is a GS that is capable at 16 months of age anymore. Of course there are differences in the breeds....I get that....but folks should be concerned that the type of "hardy" dog that our breed was always known for is getting harder and harder to find. Too much specialization on traits that don't equip the dog for real work anymore....thus you don't see them as much in real work anymore, although there are as many GS as ever being bred. That's my take!|
by myret on 18 May 2012 - 18:31
|Gustav That is one point I have tryed to make for years I see it all the time In my work Ib security at night many gsd dont work well i dark rooms, slippery floors, stairs, and so om and many of the mals Im seeing dont very often have the same issues they dont hessitate just runs into the decoy or whatever very driven That is one of the reassons I did not like the schh sport because many dogs are not further tested other places than ón the fields|
by myret on 18 May 2012 - 18:36
|We see it here often In search and rescue many gsd cant make it In the long term many of Them are not able to keep drive for 40 minutes without praise and rewards and many of the gsd cant make it working In warm weather they loose drive. Many of Them dont like working In difficult enviroments like mountains, slippery floors or either again In this the mals is doing better and alot of gsd fail their final test|
by Gustav on 18 May 2012 - 20:43
|Myret....so very true....I see it all the time also!!!|