German Shepherd Dog > Looking for a European German Shepherd excellant breeder. Bullinger Shepherds? (104 replies)
by aceofspades on 08 May 2012 - 23:00
|I never said she titles all of her dogs herself (i said she trains and titles all of her breeding dogs, meaning within her organization) I said mostly herself and i guess mostly is subjective because there are only so many hours in a day and you do as much as you can in that time and that she works her dogs as a full time business, nor did I mention anything about her females being on co-ownerships, so You must be responding to someone else. One of my last posts shOuld also be edited to fix a couple errors. 122 registered with CKC (my phone posted that as AKC) and we were told $1500 for a puppy and I see her website says $1500-$2500.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 09 May 2012 - 04:56
| I have had several conversations with TRACEY on the phone as she called me.|
I would buy a pup or dog from her in a heart beat., but I would go up there and pick myself.
I went to Campsbellsport WISCONSIN, back many years ago so If I would drive that far..TRACEYS place is not very much more.
Tracey is one fine lady.
And as far as to how much she makes, how she combs her hair, where she shops and if she is tax free, debt free or has caviar for breaksfast,,,
I COULD CARE LESS.
HER PUPS she does stand behind..her LIFE IS HER DOGS..
by aceofspades on 09 May 2012 - 05:05
|Admin needs to put a "like" button on here just like Facebook. LOL|
by Chaz Reinhold on 09 May 2012 - 05:11
|Couldn't care less.|
by Gustav on 09 May 2012 - 11:49
|Tracey, has been dealing with Show lines that have character for over twenty years. She knows the genetics of the dogs who still produce good physical and mental soundness. Why would I buy a puppy from a breeders that may have two titled dogs imported, knows little about their history, but raises them individually in the house. I don't buy the nuture/genetic theory of being equal. Give me the breeder that has the knowledge to know the lines and dogs, and the INTEGRITY to breed for dogs that still have good GS temperament, over many of the SL breeders that breed for beauty and showring performance and if the pup isn't that caliber many times doesn't make a good pet even when raised in a house. The knowledge and intent of the breeder is more important than where the pup comes from in my world.|
by Blitzen on 09 May 2012 - 12:01
|What Gustav and Yellow Rose said.|
by Darka on 09 May 2012 - 14:12
|Well I would hope that if you are producing 122 puppies a year you know what you are breeding. You can breed good dogs on a much smaller scale and still be successful.|
by Gustav on 10 May 2012 - 02:20
|@ Darka....but one doesn't nullify the other....and that's the impression you initially gave.|
by Darka on 10 May 2012 - 04:34
|So you are saying someone who has a litter or two a year cannot know the dogs they are producing as well as someone who mass produces?|
by aceofspades on 10 May 2012 - 05:29
|I think what Gustav is saying is just the opposite. That just because Tracy produces 100+ puppies a year doesn't mean they get less than 100% from her or are poor quality. One doesn't automatically negate the other. Just because one is good doesn't mean that (in this case) the other is not.
Obviously when you have put out as many puppies as she has through the years and at the quality she has there is no question she knows her stuff. The big question mark here has been can anyone who produces 100+ puppies a year truly be caring for them properly. While it may not be the case for many organizations where 100 puppies or more a year are born, I haven't heard of any person who has been disappointed with the quality of their dogs from Tracy or said they were in poor health and I have never heard a story where a buyer came out of a purchase unhappy.
Pretty much anything that is said in the negative about Bullinger is non specific and has no details. Some post here and say do your research yet when you do research the only negatives are the same people saying "do your research" no one has any specifics. I did hOwever recieve one email that after reading seemed to be one side of a three sided story and in no way leaves me with the impression that Tracy's dogs are not well cared for. So I have to consider the source. Either that or Bullinger knows how to keep bad press off of the Internet......which I find hard to believe.
by yellowrose of Texas on 10 May 2012 - 05:43
| YOU CANNOT PLEASE EVERYONE ALL OF THE TIME|
and you cannot all the time please everyone.
I love GM products, my deceased husbands family loved FORDS< we worked on all of them, and I know all the faults of most auto makers, but just know that all of them have some faults but you will never change my mind on buying anything but a Gm OR a Chevy product.
Same thing in buying dogs, pups and wanting the quality first, and the reputation going with it.
Does not GM, FORD, CHRYSLER, DODGE, VW, HONDA , ETC all have reputations. DO not all of them produce some crap once in a while...we call them Lemons>>>>>
but THEY didn't fold up because they happen to produce a faulty produce along the way..Breeders have faults too...
GO visit Bullinger..
Answers come by Personal TOUCH< FEEL>SIGHT.....
Gossip and rumours are a dime a dozen.
by Pirates Lair on 10 May 2012 - 06:23
| Just asking a question,|
Do any of the people endorsing the virtues and integrity of this breeder actually own, or have purchased one of their dogs?
Simply asking a question from the PDB folks who post here regularly.
How many times have you folks repeatedly said- Do Your Research?
Should a person, who is trying to research a reputable Breeder (any Breeder) take the word of people who endorse a Breeders quality of dog and integrity. When in fact, they have never purchased a dog from the Breeder they are endorsing?
If in fact you have never purchased a dog from a Breeder you endorse then you are merely repeating “Hearsay”
Hearsay;is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience.
Again, I’m just asking a simple and reasonable question.
by aceofspades on 10 May 2012 - 06:25
|So you own a dog from Bullinger then Kim?|
by Pirates Lair on 10 May 2012 - 06:52
No, I don't own one of this Breeders dogs, why would I? Everyone here knows who I am.
I have (in fact) met and know people who have purchased dogs from this breeder.
Have you or do you own one of this Breeders dogs?
And, for the record I am only repeating the famous words of the PDB - Do your Research
Has Yellow Rose ever been to Canada? Or seen any of this Breeders dogs or any of the other Breeders dogs she endorses?
Research, the famous words used on this forum every day!
by aceofspades on 10 May 2012 - 07:21
|I don't personally own a Bullinger. I know people who do and are happy and I spoke with Tracy at length over the course of months when looking in 2009. We ended up finding a dog (two actually) that were more to our liking with different breeders. I agree. Definitely research. Here is the thing. When you "research" Bullinger here is what you find. You find accolades or you find people like you who are dancing around but not saying anything. I am able to find pages and pages of accolades to every forum post that says "all that glitters is not gold" I feel like it is no different than me saying I boycott Tim Hortons (similar to Dunkin Donuts) because they never make my coffee correct and their service is terrible. Iran how hard is it to put one sugar two cream in a coffee, but no, I end up with a double double every.single.time. I can tell everyone who will listen but apparently my order is the only one that is screwed up out of the ten thousand coffees a day that they serve. I am not a happy customer but the other 9000+ they serve daily clearly are because they keep going back. I don't expect anyone, no matter who they are, to please everyone 100% of the time. How long has Tracy been breeding? How many puppies has she sold? My guess is that the overall percentage of unhappy buyers is very small|
by Pirates Lair on 10 May 2012 - 07:47
Again- Just for the record, I'm just asking simple questions that any “new prospective” dog owner should ask/be encouraged to ask.
I have no issues with any person or breeder, a question was asked and I have merely offered my “factual concerns and observations.”
I can and will, responsibly and politely answer to anything I post on this forum.
Mr. Kim Moore
K9 Pirates Lair
May I respectively ask who you really are? And where you live?
If you wish to respond privately, I’ll save you some time, my e-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org
by Pirates Lair on 10 May 2012 - 10:03
|I am not a Lawyer.......but I know people who are, and I heard, that they heard from other people that they are happy in their job! And are really good at it and make all their clients broke!|
And...they said the following....
Any person(s) who endorse the integrity of a Breeder/Handler/Trainer and or the quality; of the Breeder/Handler/Trainers dog(s) on this International Forum, should be aware of/and prepared to accept legal/civil/criminal responsibilty for their “written/internet based endorcement” and be prepared to financially compensate anyone who makes a decision to purchase a dog or services based on that person(s) representation of the same.
Just saying.......Be careful
PDB Gospel- Research
Mr. Kim Moore
by Gustav on 10 May 2012 - 10:58
|@ Aceofspades.....Your reading comphrehension is very good!!! That was exactly what I was saying, as that was the challenge to her breeding program. Thanks!|
I won't dignify the distortion.
The subject wasn't about one or two litter breeders and so has nothing to do with the quality of Bullinger GS. The bulk of poorly bred dogs actually come from small breeders as there are so many more of them that just put two dogs they purchased together. But that's another subject. My point is the quality,(genetics) of the dogs is going to live with the purchaser, as opposed to the conditions of the breeding program.....Word
by Blitzen on 10 May 2012 - 12:48
|Is this another workinglines vs showlines issue?|
Not referring to you, Gustav.
by EuroShepherd on 10 May 2012 - 14:51
I've never been to Bullinger kennels, never spoken to Tracey. BUT I will say that a large breeding kennel CAN absolutely be a BETTER breeding kennel than small kennels!
In the past I've worked for several kennels, mostly small ones. But I had the honor of working at one very large kennel that also whelped around 100 puppies a year. This large breeding program is one of the best in world in their breed. The kennel itself is spectacular too, better looking than most peoples' homes.
I'm personally a small breeder, it's been almost 2 yrs since I've raised a litter. In 18+ years of owning GSDs I've only had 3 litters. So, after seeing first hand the daily operations of small breeders, large breeder and my own breedings I can say that I absolutely believe that a large breeder is in a much better position to do more good for a breed than small breeders.
A good large breeder can do more for the breed than a good small breeder.
A good large breeder is in a much better position to select the best breeding dogs. Whereas the small breeder is usually stuck with what they have. Just because a dog passes health tests and earns titles does not mean it's a great breeding quality dog. But a small breeder will still breed the dog that they have because they don't own a better choice.
A good large breeder is more likely to only keep the best of the best for breeding. A large breeder can keep the best pup(s) from 5 different litters, raises them, titles them, gets all their health checks done and then takes a good, serious look at these young dogs and only keep 1 or 2 of the best of the best for their breeding program. Small breeders don't have that luxury.
Most small breeders work full time jobs away from home, so when they have a litter of puppies they aren't able to observe the litter nearly as much as a breeder who doesn't work outside the home.
Small breeders are likely to not have nearly as much experience and skills with puppy selection (and understanding puppy characteristics) as a breeder who has whelped and raised a lot more litters.
A large breeder is much more capable of fixing the good characteristics into the genotype.
A problem with small breeders is most of them don't have their own bloodline that they've been breeding for many generations.
Most people can agree with what bad characteristics are in regards to health, but for every other aspect of a dog there are a lot of opinions. What one person likes and what their order of importance is in breeding dogs will be different from the next person. So take a dog who comes from a long line of small breeders. (lets just say that in a dog's 10 generation pedigree, each generation was a different breeder) That dog may be healthy because each breeder screened for health issues. But does that dog have any good characteristics actually fixed into it's genotype? What if one breeder was obsessed with good feet and pasterns, the next breeder was obsessed with retrieving ability, the next breeder obsessed with great heads, the next breeder obsessed with child friendliness....and so on...
So what on earth is that dog genotypically???
With a large breeder who has raised many generations of dogs, you don't have to ask or guess at what is important in their breeding program, their dogs will show you. and you know what is genotypically fixed into that dog's lines.