German Shepherd Dog > My pups' pedigree, and her lack of nerve? (79 replies)
by Anthony8858 on 30 April 2012 - 18:19
I'd like to address this comment:
I didn't "Allow" this to happen. I was walking with my puppy on leash, when an OFF-LEASH GSD came out of nowhere. The other dog was loose, when he shouldn't have been.
Just thought I'd clear that up.
And I have been working with her. She's very socialized, and well balanced. She simply doesn't trust German Shepherds.
She plays well with her "friends". Her regular playmates. She's rough, but has tremendous bite inhibition with small dogs and children.
She is genuinely afraid of german shepherd dogs. that's all I see.
Yesterday, we participated in the American Cancer Society's "dog walk for cancer". There were maybe 200 dogs there, and many german shepherds. Just so happen to be a few German Shepherds from a local breeder, who's dogs are well balanced and trained. I spoke to him about her issue, and he offered that we walk together. I took the opportunity to do that, and she was fine.
I took a picture for all to see :) (She's on the right)
It's as if she knew that that dog was safe for her. Truly amazing sense.
by Sheesh on 30 April 2012 - 18:44
|I think the problem here is the phrase "poor nerve". IMO this is not the proper way to describe the behavior you mention. Sensitivity, and unforgiving might be better. It seems she was indeed traumatized by the event, which could happen to any puppy that age of any line, regardless of genetics. Her inability to rebound and recover may lie in the genes. She sounds sensitive to me, not necessarily weak nerved, but I don't know her. Dog parks are generally not safe. Too many unknown factors. As with the bad experience you had, unfortunately you cannot control other people and their dogs. It's just inviting a bad experience. No thanks. :-) Good luck! Theresa|
by Blitzen on 30 April 2012 - 18:47
|Great idea to walk her with other GSD's. I've seen that work more than once with a young dog like yours. Did she watch the older dogs to see how they reacted to other dogs. etc.? Dogs can teach other dogs as much as humans, sometimes I think more. When we first take puppies to the swimming "hole" we always take along an older dog or 2 that are good swimmers and patient with puppies. In no time those puppies are diving into the water chasing sticks too. |
We have a BC at training class that was attacked by a GSD and feared every GSD he saw. After a few sits and downs with a GSD on both sides, the BC doesn't seem to fear them much anymore. He is respectful, but doesn't try to hide when one comes his way.
by myret on 30 April 2012 - 18:54
|what ever the reason for the dogs reaction if its poor nerve or just the bad incident many dogs would react to this if they where attacked as a pup even strong nerved dogs , and dogs react differently som get aggresive towards other dogs if they where atacked as pups other get more afraid|
but the key to help the problem is let her met 100% friendly dogs og the ones she dont like so she can get another picture in the head that not all gsd are vicius
by Gustav on 30 April 2012 - 20:23
|@ Jaymeise51.....I am one that said it was due to weaker nerves.....I have never said anything whatsoever about Showline or workingline.....there are different degrees of weak nerves, and they can be subject to any line....BUT that's why I never mentioned SL VS WL. If the nerves are weaker regardless of the lines the behavoirs will be evident to an experienced eye. All that nonsense you wrote is just that, nonsense; and shows your bias or lack of knowledge of both lines!!!Whew!!!!|
by Bundishep on 01 May 2012 - 03:20
|pups and dogs will recover that have decent nerves to start with,your best chances of having a dog with good nerves is to start will top working lines known for good nerves.|
by Two Moons on 01 May 2012 - 03:49
I only skimmed through the responses you received but I wanted to tell you this, a dog will never forget an experience such as you described.
It's got nothing to do with nerve.
You could train this out of your dog, but you would neither like the training, or what it would do to your dog.
I would let it go, except it and move on.
by Chaz Reinhold on 01 May 2012 - 03:58
|Moons, just like the other thread, I disagree with you. Some dogs can get beaten over the head with a 2x4 and recover immediately, whereas others piss themselves for the rest of their lives every time the wind blows.|
by Two Moons on 01 May 2012 - 04:04
your always quick with the comic remarks but your never very convincing when it comes to your knowledge of animal behavior.
No offense but your last post has nothing to do with the situation as it was described.
You are simply wrong in that regard.
I'm not sure what other thread you speak of, but so be it.
by Chaz Reinhold on 01 May 2012 - 04:18
|Well, if you follow this dog, I'd be willing to bet that the scary GSDs aren't the only things to spook the dog.|
by Two Moons on 01 May 2012 - 04:24
You may be right, but my point is correct, a dog who has this kind of early tramatic experience even if it gets past it will never forget it, ever.
That's a fact you can dispute all you like, I don't care.
Have you ever raised real pit dogs?
We can disagree.
by yellowrose of Texas on 01 May 2012 - 05:45
The fact that this young dog is leary of another gsd, just because another gsd pinned her and shook her is not making much sense to me other than genetic
I have had mother gsd grab their own pups and shake milk shake and the pup goes crying to the other side of the yard only to come back and ready for round 2.
I would not want a dog that could not be grabbed by even me and run off and have no bounce back into its normal self to meet the bull by its horn.
Sorry but I cannot buy , that it will recover, or should be coddled like all the suggestions have posted.
I would accept it, go on and be looking for a different bloodline.
No properly nerve structured dog would react that way no matter what got it cornered. I have had 3 month old pups in fights with a little older pup and the small one almost beat up the older pup..
Genetics make up the whole structure of what any pup can endure.
Pups on the club practice field see more incidents and get involved in all kinds of pressure and if they do not have nerves fit for any kind of battle of the sexes at a young age, then it is genetic .
The fact that this dog fears other gsd and not other breeds., the gsd has a warning aire about themselves and they send out a certain ALPHA message when approached and this dog is keying off of it.
by Red Sable on 01 May 2012 - 10:00
|Good post YR.|
After reading some of these responses, it becomes clear some have never had a really solid nerved dog.
by Anthony8858 on 01 May 2012 - 10:26
I have to agree with you. I have seen other dogs "get it" from other dogs, and they just move on. My pup is super sensitive to her surroundings, and extrememly receptive, to a point of over sensitive. Things just don't bounce off her, she takes everything in.
For example... If 2 dogs get into some rough play, and there's growling, I've witnessed her simply shy away, and just sit at a distance. Whereas, the other dogs' instinctive response, was to investigate the ruckus.
I've used her receptiveness to our advanatge. She's easily trained, and she's done well in all areas of obedience. Get's it real quick.
At home, or on leash, I don't see fear. She's neutral. She's comfortable. She doesn't get spooked by loud noises, and she's basically unfazed by anything. I've never witnessed her cower to anything else.
I take her everywhere. People acan approach her, and people with a GSD can approach us too... As long as she's on lead, and there's no chance that the other GSD could engage with her, she's neutral. I've had GSD's come up to us (on lead), and bark inher face. She would simply look around as if the other GSD wasn't there. This is something I've worked in with her trainer. She's non-reactive to dogs 100%.... Except off lead. She feels safe next to me on lead. That's the only way I see it.
In response to those that have asked me to accept her as she is..... I have accepted her. We all love her, and wouldn't want her any other way. She has an expceptional temperament with people and children, and is brilliant. She's doing wonderfully in obediance, and is a perfect dog for my family.
FWIW.... We visit Petco every saturday for an hour of "meet and greet". They have a rescue there on saturdays, and I'll take her there to socialize, and just sit with the other dogs. We could sit in the middle of a hundred dogs, and she's fine. People walk in the store, and greet her, and move on. This is something 've done with her since she's 4 months, and it's paid off in a big way.
The only time I see an issue, is if she's out in the open, and there a GSD looking to engage with her. Whether for play or aggression, she wants no part of a GSD off lead.
My original question was based on a comment that someone said to me.
They said if she's genetically programmed for lack of nerve, there's nothing I could do to get her past her bad experience.
I was just curious if that were the case.
Since we're on the subject of genetics, looking at her pedigree, would you expect her to have a lack of nerve?
by Blitzen on 01 May 2012 - 12:23
If I were you, I'd relax and stop trying to analyze why she reacted as she did; continue to do as you are doing as it seems to be working. The whys and wherefores only matter if you have no plans to keep the dog or if you want to try to get compensation from the breeder. Stop listening to the nay sayers and move on.
Enjoy your dog; she is beautiful and will give you years of unconditional love. She's a dog; dogs are not perfect. None are....... MM MMMMy guess is in another 6 months or less she won't even pay attention to other GSD's.
by Anthony8858 on 01 May 2012 - 12:50
Oh, I agree 100%. I'm not really concerned or over analyzing. I was just wondering if there was any truth about the genetic issue and her ability to rebound.
She's a family dog, and my REAL concern is her safety. I was concerned that she seems to invite the aggression in other GSD's.
If I have to guess, it's "growing pains" :)
by poseidon on 01 May 2012 - 12:59
|If your're considering breeding from him, then that would be entirely subjective. Otherwise just continue to manage your dog when off leash especially with other dogs around. Do you do any bitework training with your dog? Just curious.|
by poseidon on 01 May 2012 - 13:05
|Apologies, he's a she :)|
"I was concerned that she seems to invite the aggression in other GSD's." Yes because she is sending out weakness disposition and some dogs do react to this.
by Blitzen on 01 May 2012 - 13:13
That's not always true, Poseidon. I've owned some very tough dogs that would never back down from a good fight that were challenged by every other dog they got close to. It's not necessarily a sign of a "weak disposition" when a dog triggers an aggression response from other dogs.
by Markobytes on 01 May 2012 - 13:14
|I would encourage everyone to watch the youtube videos and look for Kira 11 or Kira yelps. In this video a mature GSD stares down / stalks this pup while Anthony continues to film, doing nothing to stop what is going to happen. Another dog aproaches the adult GSD who quickly snaps at it sending it fleeing . At this point Kira aproaches ( not showing weak nerve ) and is pursued finally we hear Anthony say " this doesn't look good " and the camera stops. Even though the other GSD was playing, Anthony you let Kira down, you should have seen this coming a mile away. No matter the genetics I am not letting another dog dominate or attack my pup. This is not the breeder's fault you own this one all by yourself Anthony.|