German Shepherd Dog > My pups' pedigree, and her lack of nerve? (79 replies)
My pups' pedigree, and her lack of nerve?
by Anthony8858 on 29 April 2012 - 20:30
I haven't really posted here, but thought I'd raise the topic.
I have a 10 month WGSL. You can see her photo and pedigree in the provided link below.
When she was 3.5 months, she was pinned and seriously shaken by an adult GSD. Since then, she's has no nerve around other dogs. She'll pick and play with a few choice pups in pre-arranged playdates, but as soon as a GSD enters the area, she pins her ears back, tail down, and retreats to a safe place.
I avoid dog parks, and runs, but do meet with young dogs with good temperament, and she's fine.... That is until the first sign that another dog has had entered the area.
If it's GSD, she's literally scared out of her wits.
I mentioned her pedigree, because someone mentioned that her behavior and lack of nerve is more than likely related to her pedigree than her incident.
Here's her pedigree:
She's 7 months in her picture
by Ibrahim on 29 April 2012 - 20:51
|What a beautiful head and expression she has. I hope some of the experienced will offer you the correct advice to help her overcome her fears of older GSDs.|
by macrowe1 on 29 April 2012 - 21:21
|What is WGSL? At first I thought it was a working line GSD maybe, but she's definately all show. She's traumatized I'm sure from what happened, you just have to ease her into it. Do you have any friends with a GSD? Can try getting another GSD into the picture (like a friend, or someone at the park), and letting her know it's there, then moving her out of range of the dog until she's comfortable and have her focus on you. Give her treats and praise and toys, let her relax, then slowly start moving inwards. Make sure she's comfortable though. It could take a while before she's within a few feet, but it's worth a shot.|
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 22:08
|It might help to take her to malls, outdoor restaurants, dog training places where you may see other dogs. Take her along with an adult GSD, a dog that is very good with other dogs. Walk them around side-by-side so she can see how the older dog reacts to other dogs. I think that dogs learn a lot by watching other dogs, so you need to take her with a dog you are sure will be steady and predictable. I don't think it matters if it's a male or female "teacher". Treats would be good to reward her good behavior as suggest by Macrowe.|
She's very pretty, good luck with her. She will probably be just fine with some work.
WGSL = west German showline maybe?
by macrowe1 on 29 April 2012 - 22:43
|Ah Blizten that makes so much more sense. I'm used to seeing WL and I'm like ok working line....wait, Remo? haha|
by Red Sable on 29 April 2012 - 22:52
|Very pretty head on her. :)|
I agree with the person that told you her genetics has a lot to do with her nerve and how quickly she'll get over the incident.
by Anthony8858 on 29 April 2012 - 23:04
|Just to address a few replies.|
She's a West German Show Line.
She's well socialized. Very friendly to humans, and other young pups. She's obedience trained, and still in obedience school.
She's non-reactive, meaning, she won't lunge or get agitated at the sight of another dog.
This incident happened 7 months ago, and she's still disturbed at the sight of a GSD.
She's tops in her class in obedience, but if she sees a GSD within her space, she cowers, tucks her tail, and goes between my legs.
I'm concerned that she won't recover from her traumatic experience of 7 months ago.
by Jerry Lee on 29 April 2012 - 23:20
|It is all about Genetic Temperament|
by jdiaz1791 on 29 April 2012 - 23:30
|Most people in this board don't know about quality show lines and will tell you that being show line is the problem. Unfortunately,what happened to her can be really traumatic and she might never overcome it, that is my experience;this is why you never mixed puppies of different ages or older ones. Good luck|
by Gustav on 29 April 2012 - 23:32
|Those characteristics you describe are not typical of the breed......try to do as much as possible in continuing socialization and good things.....but when under stress these things will reappear. Unfortunately, its genetics.|
by TingiesandTails on 29 April 2012 - 23:45
|I don't think it's so much a dog issue but more a handler issue. You say you "avoid dog parks". Why? You say she is "well socialized". Then dog parks shouldn't be an issue.|
Are you scared she is going to be pinned down again?
Think about what you are feeling when you see another GSD approaching and change your behaviour. Any physical attention you give her when she is frightened will increase her insecurity.
If you tense up when another GSD is approaching, it will travel down the leash.
Think about a different approach in your behaviour when you are meeting other dogs.
I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with your dog's genetics.
by Anthony8858 on 30 April 2012 - 00:29
|I avoid the "dog parks" because it doesn't sit well with her. I've taken her, and it's alomst as if she wears a sign on her back that says "get me".|
I've tried to get her "in the local pack" at the park. I'm not sure what signals she's giving off, but she immediately becomes prey.
For example.... A few weeks ago, we went to the local dog run. She's been in there a hundred times with her 2 or three regulars, but not with the older dogs.. I entered her in the run, and in a matter of seconds, the ENTIRE group of dogs was chasing her. Her ears were back, her tail was tucked, and as soon as a dog touched her, she yelped like she was being murdered. Everyone puilled their dog off her, as she did her best to hide.
I couldn't subject her to that experience.
OTOH, if I choose her friends carefully, she's fine.
Not sure if youtube link here, but here she is playing with a friend.
It's a 10 month Golden, and she's OK. Sometimes she plays rougher than others.
HOWEVER, if a GSD enters the play area, she'll literally look in the direction of that dog, and run for her life.
That incident really scarred her.
by guddu on 30 April 2012 - 01:16
|This is poor nerve, but Kira can likely be conditioned to not react to other friendly GSD's. The problem will recur if the dog is aggressive.|
by SitasMom on 30 April 2012 - 02:16
do not take her to dog parks! this is the worst place to take her, it reinforces her trama.
take her to a dog training class where all other dog are on leash. you will have to pre-arrange this. ask all owners to ignor you and her. put her in a down stay and let her watch from a safe distance. do not put her in a corner. sit next to her and ignor her. if she moves put her back in the down stay.... eventually she will become easy with having a bunch of adult dog around her and not caring about her. when she starts to get bored only then give her a treat, but ignor her any other time. this might take weeks.
once she is easy with having adult dogs around set up with the owner of the most dog neutral dog for a meeting where the 4 of you can walk side by side (2 dogs, 2 humans). once again do not reinforce her fear- do not baby her, do not notice it, do not apologize for her. just expect her to do her obedience and when she does it correctly reward her for it.
do this with as many of the other dog neutral dogs as possible. but only one at a time. the stupidity of putting her in that situation could live with her for the rest of her life. and you've been reinforcing it by trying to make things better. once she is completely normal with other breeds, do the same with gsd's... the more adult gsd's she can be exposed to in a controlled environment the better.
do not take her to dog parks!
i've dont the same thing and its taken a very long time to fix it.
by myret on 30 April 2012 - 09:02
|a dog that has been through that kind of atack from other dogs that is not very good no matter what the lines many pups that are attacked pups are very easy to take bad experience in and remember it|
I would suggest that you use cranio sacral therapy for the pup ity may help if dogs have injuris or bad experince in life
by macrowe1 on 30 April 2012 - 15:28
GSDs are extremely emotional dogs. Being traumatized that early can still have an effect on her, doesn't matter if she's show or working. But your reactions and feelings also play into her. If you're calm with the situation and not thinking "how's she going to react, is she going to back down, i hope she doesn't get jumped", then that will radiate back on her. Being as young as she is she relies more on you. If you give off the nervous vibes, she'll be nervous. I suggest finding a nice and calm GSD, doesn't matter the age (a well-socialized dog isn't a dog that is just raised around dogs of it's age and breed, but all sizes and ages), and do the distance conditioning. It should help.
by Gustav on 30 April 2012 - 16:53
|Cowers, tucks her tail, and goes between my legs is not indicative of mishandling by the owner unless it is an abusive owner and I don't think that is the case here. C'mon people. Many of us have seen this type of behavoir many many many times and 95% of the time it is genetics, sometimes with a lack of socialization mixed in; (but the lack of socialization is not the issue here), Soooooo!|
also, I have owned an 8 week puppy that was mauled by two adult dogs and had half the ear bit off and a complete hole(puncture) through the back thigh during the mauling. The dog at 2 years went to the NY State police dept and graduated the academy. Not saying all dogs are the same, just saying that many many solid nerved dogs recover quite well from traumatic experiences when young.....see it all the time. That's why solid nerve should be the number one focus of breeders.....but that's another story.
by GSDdrive1 on 30 April 2012 - 17:12
If the probelm was general nerves you would see these types of behaviors in other situations. One thing that is true regarless of a dog being show or working lines is the period up to 4 months of age is critical with regard to socialization. The timing of this incident was unfortunate and will likely have lasting effects. This is NOT solely as handler issue, and I would never take my dog to a dog park. You are just asking for trouble.
by jaymesie51 on 30 April 2012 - 17:20
|this has nothing what so ever to do with genetics it is trauma i wonder how all these bigots that are saying genetics would feel if someone booted the shit out of you and what you would be like every time you saw them again dont think you would welcome them with open arms, get a grip this young dog was brutalised by a gsd, and the fact that she is good with other dogs proves for me it is not genetic. Anthony take it from me the ones saying its genetic would paint another picture if your pup was off working stock dont listen to the bigots it is most definately trauma the fact that she only acts this way to gsd would seem to prove that.I hope you can bring her through this.|
by seltenruhe on 30 April 2012 - 18:08
|"pinned and seriously shaken" and genetics is questions and/or blamed. Wow!! I have never heard of a dog being racist due to genetics.|
You allowed a dog to do this to your pup during her very important imprinting age, now you have to do the work to desensitize her if you want to see any improvement. You need to work with someone with experience and knowledge in this matter. If it was 7 months ago or 7 years ago, she isn't going to just get over it without work on your part and the help of a 110% reliable, friendly/non-threatening GSD.