German Shepherd Dog > r u kidding me? (65 replies)
by Chaz Reinhold on 29 April 2012 - 19:14
|Rik, the cologne, sex panther, 60% of the time, it works every time. And here's a link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLq2-uZd5LY&feature=youtube_gdata_player|
by duke1965 on 29 April 2012 - 19:34
|blitzen , it will fly in this breed, as a matter of fact im following the same path I did before and results are pointing in the same directions already, and if I can do it , other breeders can do it too , and Im sure there are plenty more breeders that are the same when it comes to health first|
you will get nowhere whit a healthy mind in a sick body
to get back on topic ,every breeder can produce a case of bad health, how they handle the case afterwards is what is of greater importance(im not referring to this case)
even if you are in it for money , satisfied customers are priceless
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 19:37
I guess time will tell if the majority of GSD breeders in the US will consider inbreeding or close linebreeding. Wouldn't it be a violation of SV rules to inbreed?
by duke1965 on 29 April 2012 - 20:09
|no , because the close linebreedings the SV doesnot allow are not the best way to go about so it can perfectly work within the rules , and also with outcrossing you can loose the bad genes only its a longer and less definate path , it all starts by using healthy dogs for breeding ,unfortunately many people dont think that way, I know a puppyproducer that has a female with fast normal elbows and zugelassen hips ,given to him by breeder because of week temperament, parents known to produce this , father operated on the elbows , but still breeding er because she looks so beutiful and people want her pups|
but she has passing scores so it is OK
by Rik on 29 April 2012 - 21:06
|@ Chaz |
I'm at the stage in life where a swing and a miss is about all the excitement I need.
thanks for the laugh,
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 22:11
Ginseng might help, Rik.
by magdalenasins on 30 April 2012 - 12:46
|http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120326112842.htm I don't know where I first heard the 75/25% thing but it was at least 7 years ago and repeated by many since.|
by Keith Grossman on 30 April 2012 - 12:54
|Notice that in the title of that article, the author is carefule to say that environmental factors can affect the incidence of the condition, not cause it.|
"Dogs are not born with HD, but genetically disposed puppies can develop varying degrees of HD."
Repeating something often doesn't make it true.
by magdalenasins on 30 April 2012 - 12:58
|Yes I got that part and nowhere did I actually say HD is caused by the environment only...|
by mollyandjack on 30 April 2012 - 13:01
|Keith, I feel like that's kind of missing the point though. Yes, whether or not I will get fat from eating 20 chocolate cakes a day has to do 100% with genetics. And the answer is no, I will not get fat. However, does that mean that if a child's parents feed him 20 chocolate cakes a day and he becomes morbidly obese and diabetic, that we should say hey, it's in his genes! Yes it is, but is that the point? Should we focus on his genes or the fact that his parents shouldn't have fed him a ridiculous amount of cake?|
by Rik on 30 April 2012 - 13:05
|mag, I really don't wish to sound harsh but the 75/25 is absurd for hd/ed.|
do your own study. breed a couple of severly dysplastic dogs and a couple of dogs with several generations of good hip scores, raise the pups exactly the same environment and report back with your findings.
by Blitzen on 30 April 2012 - 13:06
"Randi I. Krontveit's doctoral research has studied the incidence of HD in four breeds of dog in Norway and examined factors in the environment where the dogs grew up that can have an affect on the number of cases. HD is a genetic disease which also occurs in several other species. Dogs are not born with HD, but genetically disposed puppies can develop varying degrees of HD. The degree of HD has an affect on when the dogs show symptoms and on how long they live."
by Keith Grossman on 30 April 2012 - 14:55
|"This article seems to support most of the OFA findings other than - dogs are not born with HD; instead he uses the term 'genetically predisposed'."|
I also consider that statement misleading. Just because a specific dog might not be displaying symptoms, doesn't mean that an abnormally formed hip socket is not HD.
by Rik on 30 April 2012 - 15:18
|"dogs are not born with HD"|
neither are they born with erect ears, decended testicles or a mouth full of adult teeth. the genes they are born with determine these things.
by Blitzen on 30 April 2012 - 15:21
Given the researcher stated in his report that HD is not present at birth, but is genetic, I wasn't quite sure what to think about that myself.
by Rik on 30 April 2012 - 15:32
|have to agree with that Blitzen, if people are really breeding GSD so fragile that puppies can't be allowed to be puppies, they have taken a wrong turn some where.|
by hunger4justice on 30 April 2012 - 15:41
|Both sire and dam are certified by the SV. Both are titled. Dam was rated KKL1/|
by zdog on 30 April 2012 - 15:48
|people give way too much credit to genes. Epigenetics has has much to do with the genetic expression as the genes themselves. and genes can be changed by the environment. From very dramatic stressors like ionizing radiation exposure, to everyday mundane stuff like food and exercise. Dysplasia is nothing more than abnormal development. If a growing joint is injured it can certainly result in dysplasia same as genes coding for an incomplete joint can be called dysplasia.|
by Blitzen on 30 April 2012 - 15:58
|But we still don't know if HD is the result of the expression of genes or the absence of genes. A vet radiologist should be able to tell the difference between a joint damaged by trauma and genetic HD.|
by Rik on 30 April 2012 - 16:25
|some things will never change|
the stud dog owner: it was the females fault
the female owner: it was the stud's fault
the breeder: it was not the fault of my dogs, must be your fault
for everyone else: must be ion radiation, because genes play no part in breeding