German Shepherd Dog > Refunds- yes or no and when and what if?? (120 replies)
by Betty on 02 May 2012 - 01:51
|I'm confused...... Which is nothing new, LOL|
You purchased insurance on the advice of your breeder and that was able to "go" with the pup when you returned him? Is the condition covered or is there a waiting period? That last question isn't important I was just curious.
Did the breeder buy the pup back?
by Jenni78 on 02 May 2012 - 02:26
|Cat, have you lost your mind? There has been no breach. There is no contract because you didn't sign it and return it when I asked, after I mailed it to your house because I forgot to hand it to you when you were here. I couldn't care less about that, and said I would pay you for him anyway, because that's what I had to do to get him back. I will always buy a dog back if that's what it takes. I had tried several times to get him back due to some disturbing information I was receiving from more than once source. I do not wish to humiliate you here, as I am not at all convinced you deserve it, personally, so please just stop threatening me and being dishonest about supposed "returns" with problems, (as I am aware of zero, and I talk to everyone I sold a dog to), have a little class, and cool your jets. This thread wasn't even all about you. I have breached no agreement. I will take care of him, then I will pay you, as we agreed a couple weeks ago. I never offered you any "returns"; the dog I offered you was mine only, and that was before certain information came to light. I am shocked you are creating such a scene, given the circumstances.|
by VonIsengard on 02 May 2012 - 02:41
Here's my take on puppy buying. It's a crap shoot and I know it is. In the process of raising the puppy you get attached, or at least, I do. I've never taken up a contract's offer to return a dog, as I have always feared what would become of them. I'd prefer to home the dog myself, cut my losses, or keep them as a pet and also cut my losses.
I will say that in the event that I worked with a breeder who wanted to take back the dog, and pay THOUSANDS for surgery to make the dog happy and homeable, I'd keel over with happiness for the dog. And to refund me on top of it? Holy crap. Who does that? I wouldn't expect money back at all, actually, since I already stated I know puppies are a gamble. A replacement, maybe, but if they wanted to pay me back in lieu of that, I'd be pleasantly surprised and grateful.
However, knowing the expense that was being put into the dog, I would never feel the need to press for that money quickly, whether it was a verbal offer or a contract carved into marble. That is how appreciative I would be of the dog that was in my home, who I loved, getting the care they need. Dog first, my bank account later, if ever.
Now, I won't profess to know a damn thing about the situation here. The internet never tells the whole story. I can only offer what my thoughts and feelings would be based on what has been presented. I told myself I wouldn't offer insight into anyone's personal woes on this or any board anymore. I'm responding to a hypothetical "what if" that may or may not be the case here. My anti-drama disclaimer.
by Rik on 02 May 2012 - 04:16
|geez, this has gone on for 5 pages now and we still don't know the issue with the dog. Since you two principal parties have chosen to make this public, inquiring minds want to know.|
Here is the conclusions I have come to so far:
1: from prerusing TH posts and the pride in the dog, it will take a bit of effort to convince me that the dog was neglected.
2: the only thing I can determine from the x-ray is that the elbow looked like a train wreck.
so, since you guys have chosen to make this public, what procedure was needed on the dog that cost $6500.
by Dawulf on 02 May 2012 - 04:33
Edited...... Nevermind, I'm not going to get into this.
by beetree on 02 May 2012 - 11:56
|Wow to VonIsengard. I see you are trying very hard to use emotionalism to deny the refund of the returned item due to defect. I don't imagine you would be so accomodating should you want to return a defective appliance? Would you wait patiently for them to send it back to the mfg. and wait for them to repair it, before getting your money back? (No where are you obligated to take a replacement.) For me it is like a bad haircut sometimes, when you get one, having the situation rectified by continued incompetence becomes mind-boggling. |
No, no you would not! Why should TH be out money because they believed the sellers often touted Buy back guarantee? It seems to me, what they now are saying is, TH shouldn't have returned the dog, but instead threatened to neglect it so the buy back clause would motivate the IF NEEDED scenario.
Now, that is just messed up, IMHO.
by Blitzen on 02 May 2012 - 11:59
|Uh...aren't there 2 different dogs, 2 different threads - the one Jenni started as a breeder followed by the one by T'Hunde as a buyer?|
Work it out privately with the buyer. The dog in the xrays T'Hunde posted clearly has bilateral ununited anconeal process AKA elbow dysplasia. A genetic condition that can be inhertied from 2 normal dogs. It is not the result of over exercise, injury, abuse. it's in the genes. MAKE THE DEAL...............fix the dog.
by OGBS on 02 May 2012 - 15:56
Attacking VonIsengard for her post is a little much.
You're normally a bit better than this from the few times I read this forum anymore.
Frankly, it is the most sane and reasonable post in this thread.
What she wrote was simply her opinion, and I agree with it.
If you care about animals it makes sense. If you don't, and they are just a means to an end, it probably won't.
Jenni has said she will give T-Hunde her money back when she has the money.
If it doesn't happen there are legal remedies for it.
Equating a dog, especially one with a health issue, to an appliance is........well, I'll use your words,
"Now, that is just messed up, IMHO."
T-Hunde and Jenni,
Each of you felt good enough about the other to buy/sell a puppy from each other.
Remember that feeling and work it out between yourselves and leave it off the internet.
This is no place to resolve issues. It only creates more conflicts and the more you post, the worse it gets.
(P.S. For anyone that wants to post who created this thread or the other, you already have. They both did, so, I really don't give a shit!)
by beetree on 02 May 2012 - 16:07
|I rather thought I responded properly with my difference. It just seems any disagreement that won't play into the emotions is labeled as an attack. Coming from a retail management background, I still stand by my analogy. And that TH should have been refunded at the same time the dog was accepted for return. That is how it is done. Or should be. And I just love how breeders are always so broke at refund time. Each and every time.|
by VonIsengard on 02 May 2012 - 16:53
|I never said anything about refusing a refund. Don't put words in my mouth. I even stated I know nothing about the situation, just responding hypothetically. Second, a dog is not an appliance or a bad haircut. What a sad and horrifying comparison. Yes, emotions do play a role in my decisions because unlike a microwave, dogs have emotions, too. I, too, thought you were better than that.|
by beetree on 02 May 2012 - 17:27
|No kidding–– it is a business transaction. Why is that so hard to understand? You are throwing in red herrings, just to muddy the issue. |
A refund should have been given when the dog was returned. What it is going to cost to fix the dog is irrelevent as to the status of the refund. Why is that so hard to understand? This is just ironic to me, because recently I was accused of being too sensitive, and now when I'm just being analytical, I'm the evil monster. You guys are trying so hard to make excuses, really, you should take a step back and see it for what it is.
by OGBS on 02 May 2012 - 18:38
I, personally, don't care about either party involved in this dispute.
I do, however, care about the dog. I love animals, that's the point. Do what is right by the dog, then be adults and figure out the rest of the details. That is the point being made by me.
It's well documented that you despise Jenni. I don't care for her myself.
What you said about emotionalism applies to you also.
Don't let your emotions towards Jenni muddy things for you either.
The point being made is that the breeder took the dog back and is getting the surgery needed or will do it.
Most breeders would just put the dog down and cut their losses. In light of this, and if T-Hunde actually cares about the well being of the dog, maybe she could provide for a little latitude as to when she receives her refund. Maybe, hopefully, the two of them can work this out on their own without the PDB court of ill-informed opinion. Like usual, and I hope this is a lesson to both of them, it truthfully gets neither party anywhere.
As for this being a cut and dried business transaction and your retail background, I have a legal background and understand contracts and business transactions, I'm sure, much better than you. Gleaning from what has been written, there are holes in both sides and a case can be made either way. This is virtually true of any legal dispute. Therefore, don't assume what you know is cut and dried and how it could actually play out in a court of law.
So there is no misinterpretation of what I am speaking of here, I am not taking in to consideration the possibility of abuse or neglect as a legal argument either way in this dispute. I am strictly speaking of how the purchase and subsequent return of the puppy was handled by both parties.
by beetree on 02 May 2012 - 18:55
|Look, feelings aside, let's get to what is right. And I don't HATE Jenni, I think she is a salesperson who uses emotions to her advantage because of the nature of the "beast", dare I say product?|
Jenni has the dog. Jenni has the money. TH has nothing.
Jenni brags: She researched her dogs, she says they are the best around. Now there are genetic issues, she wants to blame everything on environment or the negligent actions of the buyer. She says, "what if", I say, people don't be fooled.
She comes on here with a neverending declaration how because she "cares" (more than me? Unprovable!) and her tough-as-nails screening of potential buyers, and iron clad contracts and Buy Back policy, (or is it really a pie-in-the sky philosophy?) to woo potential buyers, that she's the bomb.
Well, the bomb is detonating, and for the dogs' sake I am sorry.
by Blitzen on 02 May 2012 - 20:40
|Bombs away..........make the deal........fix the dog. I wish Bee were a breeder.|
by Jenni78 on 03 May 2012 - 17:50
I see you have been very busy crusading, and well, your efforts are paying off. Seems a victory was won in Forumlandia after all! A miracle has occurred; my boss has agreed that you are right, and therefore, he will pay me this Friday, the first Friday of the month, instead of this Friday, the first Friday of the month like he always does. Whew! You must be exhausted. But alas, it was all worth it. He never would have agreed to pay me this Friday, the first Friday of the month, as our contract states, without your clear demonstration of moral superiority and astute comparisons of puppy to appliance! Now that I have seen the light and the error of my evil ways, I will send TH money back after I get paid, the first Friday of the month, instead of after I get paid, the first Friday of the month, as we had previously agreed, since I am paying for surgery. I cannot thank you ladies enough. Without you as my moral compass, TH wouldn't have gotten paid until the time we had agreed upon, after I got paid, the first Friday of the month.
by beetree on 03 May 2012 - 18:03
|WONDERFUL! What a great feeling it must be knowing you are doing the right thing.|
I am so proud of you Jenni!
by Red Sable on 03 May 2012 - 18:22
Forgive me Miss Megalomaniac if I hold my applause until I hear it from TH herself.
by Keith Grossman on 03 May 2012 - 19:30
|"It's pretty exhausting, being a member of the breed police, but so worthwhile since you don't actually have to know anything to save the world from evil."|
LMAO! Truer words may never have been spoken.
by beetree on 03 May 2012 - 19:37
|Awwwe, now why go ruining all your good karma with sour grapes. |
All's well that ends well.
by Keith Grossman on 03 May 2012 - 19:48