German Shepherd Dog > Refunds- yes or no and when and what if?? (120 replies)
by Teufel Hunde on 28 April 2012 - 23:53
|check out "r u kidding" post|
by starrchar on 29 April 2012 - 00:08
|It is really nice to know that there are breeders out there who care so deeply about the puppies they have sold.|
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 00:20
|How can anyone not care that much? That's what I don't understand. They're born in my kitchen; I remember the exact moment they entered the world and it's my fault if wherever they end up isn't good. I was the one who decided to breed their mother, so I'm responsible for their existence, am I not? If I have to give someone money who doesn't "deserve" it technically, who cares, so long as the dog is safe and happy? Karma will take care of the rest. I'm a big believer in what goes around, comes around. Not my job to police other people. |
Starcharr, I was thinking of your story because I feel terrible about Cierny. I was going to offer Haley a discount on another pup if I still breed that long. Not my fault, of course, but not her fault, either. Just a horrible situation and it's easier to give someone a break on a pup than send a refund, especially when it's not someone's fault that it happened. I am sorry your situation (not yours, but the one you posted) wasn't better w/the breeder.
I had a dog with ED a few years back. Vet said genetic, another vet said possible trauma. Her breeder was so thankful that I saw her through her surgery and spent the money that he partially refunded me though there was no proof it was genetic, as ED is very complicated and largely environmental/diet-related. His stock was clear. He didn't knowingly sell me a defective dog. I don't know if the rascal jumped off something when I wasn't looking. She was a wild one. I appreciated his gesture, and he appreciated my taking care of HER first and not being all about "my rights" yada yada yada. I wish there were more like him around. I'm sure your situation would have been handled differently. I hope they are dealing ok with the loss. That has to be very painful.
by Dawulf on 29 April 2012 - 01:12
|I second Starcharr... the world would be a better place if there were more people out there who cared so much for their dogs even long after they've been sold.|
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 12:33
Breeders: replacing/refunding on a dog you've bred is simply this - a part of doing business. The first things to look at are - were both parents clear of the defect in question......did the contract specifically guarantee against this defect...what are your terms for compensation? If you're not prepared to honor a contract literally then don't issue one with your dogs. Sell all your dogs for one reasonable pet price and promise nothing.
Buyers: do not buy dogs from breeders who don't do all appropriate health clearances and make sure you see the results. Don't buy dogs from a breeder who only guarantees against "genetic" defects and who reserves the right to compensate the buyer based on wheher or not they think the dog's environment was or was not satisfactory (or they were fed the "right" food, given the "right" exercise, etc.). More than one breeder here offers a guarantee against - "genetic HD only", why would any thinking person buy into that BS?
by mollyandjack on 29 April 2012 - 13:16
|Really? What ever happened to personal responsibility?|
by Abby Normal on 29 April 2012 - 13:19
|Very well put Blitzen.|
There are I think occasionally extenuating circumstances to the exercise/environment issue, when there is evidence that some idiot has been jumping and running the socks off a 6 month old pup. Then I think all bets are off, but that is a very singular issue, and hopefully does not arise very often. The problem is where breeders 'invoke' it as a get out clause.
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 13:24
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 13:30
|Abby, while I agree with you that those things are not good, I would put that under ignorance, not abuse (at least not intentional) and hopefully the person would learn from their mistakes if given another chance. It's just too dang bad the poor dogs have to suffer at the hands of idiots.|
by Abby Normal on 29 April 2012 - 14:24
Yes, I agree it is ignorance, but the end result is abuse and I really don't feel a breeder can be held responsible in those particular circumstances. I would also like to feel that the breeder has given some guidance as to exercise etc in respect of the puppy at the time of sale, so would assume that this has been ignored. The end result as you say is that it is always the poor dog that suffers.
BTW I would like to qualify that my comments are general and not in direct response to any 'situation' that may be underway here.
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 14:39
|Abby, no worries. This thread was a culmination of a few situations I've been hearing of lately and not just one, as I thought I was clear about but some pretty wild conclusions were jumped to. |
I agree, but I still feel that while a breeder SHOULDN'T be held responsible for any kind of abuse, the fact remains that if the dog ends up in a horrible home for any reason- blatant deception, negligence, or an honest mistake in character judging- it is STILL the responsibility of the breeder to make sure that dog is safe, whether it is fair or not. It's the same mentality that got me one of my current Pit Bulls. I bought the dog to keep it from going back to where it was headed. It's different than when my son throws a tantrum, breaks his toys, and then expects me to replace them. LOL
Dogs are total innocents and need to be protected. Maybe I'm overly emotional about it lately. That's just how I feel. It's not necessarily logical, but it feels right.
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 14:44
|How exactly would you prove abuse, Jenni?|
by joanro on 29 April 2012 - 14:44
|There are some buyers out there who are going to do whatever they dam well please with a puppy, no matter what a breeder's recommendations are. That's why just listening to a potential buyer is important. Let them brag about how they intend to have a pup ready for agility or whatever by the time it is five months old and then you can tell them you don't have a pup for them. To me, one of the biggest problems with people raising pups, aside from age inappropriate exercise, is overfeeding.|
by magdalenasins on 29 April 2012 - 14:49
|Jenni, if it feels right to you it's right, you obviously know what you are talking about.|
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 15:20
|Proving it? Who cares about proving it! Just pay the cretins once the dog is taken care of. |
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 19:10
Well, Jenni, if one is going to accuse someone of abusing a dog , then maybe one should have proof of that?
by isachev on 29 April 2012 - 20:51
|Have to agree with Blizten. There is no proff of abuse or negel;ct. Work at the same club with them and saw an issue right away !!!!! Give money back.....|
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 22:23
|What are you people talking about? Where did I ever accuse anyone of anything? On the contrary, I was uber cautious not to appear that way. Y'all make some mighty big leaps to conclusions...either that or there are a bunch of narcissists who think everything said or written simply must be about them, as they are the only people in the world and their dogs are the only dogs in the world. LOL |
by Red Sable on 29 April 2012 - 22:42
|Then what is the issue here?|
If you want them to spend money on the dog to make it more comfortable, give them their refund so they have the funds to do so.
by mollyandjack on 29 April 2012 - 22:46
|Did you not see the part where Jen mentions she has the dog and is spending the 4-5,000 to make him comfortable?|