German Shepherd Dog > WANTING TO GO INTO BREEDING (31 replies)
WANTING TO GO INTO BREEDING
by Browser on 02 April 2012 - 18:55
|I dont want the negative comments about me not already being a breeder so i should stay well away from the breed. All of you were novices once and you had to start somewhere. |
I already own a Non-KC Reg bitch so even if she was the perfect dog to breed from, no benifit will come from me breeding her. So even known i have debated it and even been asked from people with GSD "studs" to think about given her a little with their dog I've decided against the idea.
To be honest i dont know where to start. People seem to be very protective of their dogs and the few breeders i have liked who seem to haver CH dogs in the Kennels seem to be only willing to do pet only contracts and only allowing established breeders have pups to breed from. Which is good but it leaves me looking at people breeding from dogs that seem to be bred for the pet market which I would consider but I at the moment I feel like I want to consider breeding dogs which are already from what some of you would describe as "good" lines.
I also like all different "types" of GSD I love the straight back old look and I love the show dogs, so i guess i havent offically decided on which line am going to go for yet lol So I guess am looking at all types to start from.
As a first time breeder I dont which is best to be honest and do I start off getting a good stud dog before i invest in a bitch or do I get a bitch. If do start with a bitch and it comes with registering her litter do I just use the Net to contact the kennel club to register the litter etc or do I have to jump through hoops before they will allow me to register my first litter with them?
I proberly wont buy a bitch/dog for a year or two yet so really just looking into the idea and looking at all my options.
Thanks and I welcome all comments apart from the ones that will try and point out how much of a novice i am and how much i will ruin the breed. I've been though alot of posts on here where certian members have really took their narrow minded opinions too far
by darylehret on 02 April 2012 - 19:19
|In your situation, I would do this: find an already titled female in europe, have her bred to the hottest name dog over there, then import her here. Should be easy enough to sell the puppies, despite what your level of experience with the breed is. Keep the best female you can from the litter, and enroll in the nearest schutzhund club, to train and title your pup, and practice with the already titled mother.|
With any luck, the litter paid for your titled female, her stud fee, and possibly something toward the annual schutzhund club dues. Then, save enough for stud service to the older female the next year, and hold back another female from that litter. Then, with the litter proceeds, shop for a male of your own, puppy or adult, that is compatible with any or all three of your females. Keep training.
By then, you'll have a good enough idea if you even like being a "puppy salesman", a "dog trainer", and a "dog breeder" all at once. Because while each is different, they are all necessary, and you'll have to delegate or hire out the aspects of the business that you don't wish to deal with.
by melba on 02 April 2012 - 19:20
|The best advice I can give you is find a mentor. Someone who is already where you want to be, that trains,|
titles and health tests their stock.
by Browser on 02 April 2012 - 19:30
|thanks guys and darylehret I think am gonna look into your suggestion. It would work out cause it would give me a few years to really look into it and find the right bitch|
by EuroShepherd on 02 April 2012 - 19:30
If you want to become a breeder and you want to get started the right way then you need to apprentice with an experienced, reputable breeder. Someone who will teach you about dog structure, temperament, health, breeding, whelping, training dogs (for show or otherwise), going to shows, paperwork, etc. Since you're willing to wait a year or two before getting a dog then use that time wisely to learn hands-on from other breeders. Attend dog shows regularly, talk with people.
by Browser on 02 April 2012 - 19:59
|Thanks EuroShepherd and that really is a lot of usefull advice... for me anyways :)|
by Keith Grossman on 02 April 2012 - 20:28
|Some good advice from both darylehret and EuroShepherd although I would have left out the part in the former's post about shopping for a male that is compatible with any or all of your females for a couple of reasons. You won't really know if the dog is actually compatible with any of your females until after you've bred them. What we think should happen and what actually happens when genes collide are often very different things and even if you do get lucky and produce some nice pups, the extent to which you can use that dog in future breedings of your own stock becomes increasingly limited.|
As EuroShepherd mentions, obtaining, training and campaigning a stud dog can be a very expensive proposition and one that is unnecessary considering the availability and affordability of breeding to so many extremely nice dogs, regardless of what lines you decide to breed. The reality is that the best choice of a stud dog for any female that you own at any given point in time is probably not going to be one that you own.
Breeding dogs is a lot of research, a lot of work, a lot of stress, and if you're doing it right more expensive than the amount of money you'll get back in puppy sales. So, why does everyone want to do it?
by EisenFaust on 02 April 2012 - 21:23
|Browser, I have an idea how about you get into the dogs in the form of training and showing them. Your first dog usually is the one you learn from. The reason I say this is because having one family dog to train and play with is FUN, but when you add in multiple dogs and all that goes with it you see things from another point of view. Also by training your own dogs you can start to understand drives and temperment. This is important for when breeding. also by getting involved in the training it will help you decide if you want to breed for the show ring or for work. Breeding is expensive and very time consuming.. Good luck to ya.|
by SitasMom on 03 April 2012 - 03:04
|if you're want to breed only the best and strive for the breed standard, expect to loose plenty of money.|
by Kaffirdog on 03 April 2012 - 07:39
|I think the first question you should ask yourself is WHY you want to be a breeder. Once you understand your motive you have a place to start. |
by noddi on 03 April 2012 - 09:18
|well said Margaret n Sitasmom,so true.Carole S.|
by live4schutzhund on 03 April 2012 - 09:34
|Wow, very positive help and good advice to this guy. So now maybe a reality check.|
Price for the average titled female from Europe whether work or show.
3000 to 7000 Euro.
Shipping about 600 to 1200 Euro, depending on export city.
Stud fee to top male 800 to 2000 Euro.
Facilities, website, advertising- (re-written this so many times...condensed version)
If your image whether online or in person is poor in any aspect, affluent people wont buy from you.
Facilites need to be nice, clean, and photogenic.
Website and every photo on it needs to be professional.
Garbage attracts garbage with no money. Dont look like garbage.
If you do it correctly, your dogs will attract the affluent. The affluent only like buying from people like them. What you have to realize is, being affluent usually goes hand in hand with intelligence and good instincts. They are hard to fool if you are putting on a show.
Good luck, make sure you think it out.
P.S. If you proceed before you are ready, compromise in any way, you will struggle for a very long time. You will become one of those people that spends all there time on here bashing dogs that are in the top 10 in the world....every year...because they dont look like your garbage.
Is that too blunt? Trying to save someone some pain.
by Browser on 03 April 2012 - 11:00
|live4schutzhund That made me smile (the bit about the grabage) I generally think everyone has their own ideas and views for the breed so no one is right or wrong in that sense so i doubt i would be bitch for the sake of bitching :) lol|
Margaret well it clearly isnt for the money... if it was i would of had my non-kc reg bitch up the duff by now and selling her pups for £250... I did get offered by a Tamaskan breeder to use his stud so i could sell the pups for 500 quid each as wolf-a-like dogs. The fact i declined nicely shows that am not into this for the money. I guess without getting to ahead of myself before i have even found a bitch, I like the idea of puttin my own mini stamp on the breeding world one day but ony time will tell how that one would work out.
by noddi on 03 April 2012 - 15:08
|Broswer,i can see from your above post n your other thread re hip scoring that u reside in the UK.My advice is to go to as many shows as u can,ideally the regional shows,which are run on german lines where ALL animals over 2 yrs.are hip n elbowed scored with acceptable results for breeding,breed surveyed n have at least a BH or KC.GC.award (bronze).Also breed club ch.shows,then general ch.shows n speak to the top breeders who have been in the breed a long time n HAVE PROVED their worth .You will find the dates/location of the regional shows on the website of the gsd league of gt.britain(GSDL)Breed/general champ.sjow dates can be found on LARATH GSDS website.Hope this info.helps.Carole.S.RHEINMEISTER GSDS.|
by Gusmanda on 03 April 2012 - 16:10
|maybe think about doing breeding at a small scale? Say, starting with 1 female, at some point keeping 1 daughter, never having more than 2 at any point? You will still have to train, play puppy salesman, and get involved overall. By the way, there is a way of registering non-registered dogs, at least in FCI countries. It won't be a pedigreed dog, but it will serve as a form of "ID".|
by Browser on 03 April 2012 - 18:18
|Gusmanda I think i would never have more than two - three bitches at the same time. I would proberly only breed a bitch when i needed to keep one for myself to carry the line on.|
by Hundmutter on 03 April 2012 - 22:43
|There is loads of good advice here - but can we just go back to the start again for a minute please? While you are taking the suggested time to watch and learn, can you bear in mind that you really do not want to start breeding before you have decided at least roughly which type of dog you are aiming for. If you actually know which shape and which abilities you wish to perpetuate, it will help narrow down your choices. At the moment, you seem to be floundering|
around a bit.
Also - re established breeders not wanting to sell good bitches outright to novices. Surely no
surprise if you think about it. Investigate getting one on Breeding Terms - but be VERY careful,
get everything in writing if you go that route.
by sonora on 03 April 2012 - 23:57
All above have given you very good council
and many who have walked the road will be wishing
that they were given all this advice before they started.
I would like to add my regrets and hope you see a clearer path.
Deside what sport you want to breed for,
what's the correct type, temperamant and other traits that is required for it.
Then sturdy the current winners and their bloodlines.
In most sports only a few bloodlines or combinations of bloodlines
and specific dogs produce top quality progeny of the correct type
Talk to people, who are producing the excellent dogs
in your choice of sport be it working,show,herding, search and rescue, etc,
and get some insite on the genetic virtues and shortcomings
in the various bloodlines ( you don't want major problems in the puppies
you intend to produce) and difficulty of breeding excellent dogs for any sport.
Then select your mentor.
Go to trails/shows ,see the proformances and understand,
why the excellent dogs are graded excellent.
What traits and quarlities do they have that others don't ?.
Hope that when you have done the above,
you will begin to see why the very best progeny
of the very top quality,take over and become the top
producers of quality dogs in any sport today.
And hopefully you may be able to contribute to producing
quality dogs in your choice of sport tomorrow.
It is very important to invest wisely on quality,
because that is the level you are starting from.
With the knowledge gained and right choice of the stud, hopefully
you will start your journey of becoming a good breeder.
All the Best
by darylehret on 04 April 2012 - 00:52
Nah, just jump right in, and know no matter what, you'll make mistakes. I learned what "type" I really prefered as I went along. I don't think anyone could be expected to study the book cover to cover before ever even owning a dog. You need one to train with anyway, to really learn "while doing it". Then over time, as you are exposed to more dogs in your training group and at trials etc., you realize what characteristics you like in those dogs and what to avoid, what breeding they have in common with each other, the various methods of training that work for you, etc. Just saying that to some extent, you need to jump in and get your feet wet. And that goes for the simple practice of breeding as well. Unless you're whelping, selling and training puppies FOR your "mentor", you have to do what's feasible at the moment, and aspire for improvement. It took years to realize what kind of dog really liked and wanted to reproduce, and just when I was on the verge of leaving the breed in disgust.
by Hundmutter on 04 April 2012 - 07:25
|Daryllehret - perhaps if you'd done it more the other way, you'd not have got to the point of being about to 'leave in disgust' ??|