German Shepherd Dog > What does a straight back gsd and roach back dog look like (162 replies)
by Kevin Nance on 28 March 2012 - 16:23
|No roach, works nicely...|
by Kevin Nance on 28 March 2012 - 16:30
by Ibrahim on 28 March 2012 - 16:51
|That's a real beauty, look at that athletic body !! |
by Hundmutter on 28 March 2012 - 17:26
Carole S - Hello ! Yes, am well, thanks. Hope u r 2 ?
by joanro on 28 March 2012 - 17:47
|The reason they (borzoi, bedlington, etc) are not being debated is because those breeds are in accordance to their respective breed standard. Not so with GSDs with other than flat, strong backs. I'm very much aware that "overbuilt" is descriptive term, and that it also minimizes the deformity. Btw, the above mentioned breeds do require care to prevent over-exaggerated conformation.|
by joanro on 28 March 2012 - 18:06
|I have often pondered the thought that GSLs may have had BORZOI crossed in to gain coat texture and length. Also that if this cross did indeed take place, the top line in the GSL would reflect such a cross, along with a very long tail dragging the ground in some dogs.|
by Red Sable on 28 March 2012 - 18:07
|Very nice looking dog Kevin. :)|
by noddi on 28 March 2012 - 18:10
|Hiya Linda,yes we are all very well thanks.Chiki is now 9 years n is now shown in veteran,so not much chance of that 3rd elusive ticket.Methinks we,re banging our heads against a brick wall here.Kevin,nice well balanced gsd there mate with A CORRECT TOPLINE,not dead straight,flat nor level but as per standard,slightly sloping from front(withers)to back(croup)Joanro,where in the standard be it SV,UK KC,FCI or AKC,is the word FLAT used to describe a gsds backline??????Most photos of gsds printed on here,as having a straight back ARE STANDING 4 SQUARE as all other breeds are stacked.Its only gsds that are posed differently.I bet if you were to stand your supposidly straight backed dogs in a proper gsd show stance,then you will mosr definitely see a slight curve in the backline as the rear end drops when one leg is outstretched behind n the further its put back the greater the curve.If an animal is slightly shorter in length than is standard that will also accentuate the curvature of the backline.I,ve clicked onto Linda Shaws link n even the drawing she states as being roached ,IS NOT WOT I WOULD CALL A ROACH.Roached back to me is a definite peak in the backline(think there is a photo on here or the other thread)which demonstrates wot i mean.The whole topline should flow w/o interruption.Flat backed gsds to me are like a table with a leg at each corner,ie.giving a square look,which is not slightly sloping at the croup.Also some look like a ski slope,but i think thats more in the USA than UK.Have a go with your own gsds u sceptics n i,ll bet ya a dollar,when you check the photos you,ll notice the differnce in the show posed one to the one with the animal stood 4 square.Carole Spelman Rheinmeister gsds.|
by joanro on 28 March 2012 - 18:21
|Flat and straight being inter changed casually here, not intending to upset you. Also, the stack of the gsd is preposterous.|
by myret on 28 March 2012 - 18:49
I see the differense the other one has a more straight back beutiful built gsd stunning
by myret on 28 March 2012 - 18:53
beutiful dog with a very slight slope but almost straight like this dog ;-)
by Hundmutter on 28 March 2012 - 18:57
|Noddi - thanks Carole I was going to refer to the various Standards but then read yours,|
couldn't have put it better.
Jeanro - you can't say the Borzois or Bedlington Terriers or any other breed have that shape topline in their Standards so that's ok, but GSDs don't so it isn't. It is either unhealthy or its not.
(Actually UK Borzoi standard does not say they should have a 'roach' back, it says "Back rises slightly at the loin to form a wide arch" - though I'm sure we have all seen examples which
fit that description better than others. Some countries make reference to a "wheel" back in both these breeds. The Bedlington specifies a roach, but its one of very few which do. Anyone suggesting there's been a GSD x Bedlington outcross ? LOL)
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 19:06
Why would a breeder want to crossbreed to a borzoi for longer coat length and texture when almost every GSD alive carries the long coat gene and many are plushes with harsh guardhairs?
by Keith Grossman on 28 March 2012 - 19:10
|I have to give you credit for trying, Linda; I typically pass right by these threads rather than argue with self-appointed experts.|
by joanro on 28 March 2012 - 19:13
|Hmutter your sarcasm is ok, too , I wouldn't expect more.|
by Hundmutter on 28 March 2012 - 19:59
by Abby Normal on 28 March 2012 - 20:47
Linda – Carole Lister didn’t write the post, Louis Donald did, and he is the author of the paper referred to which is available through Carole Lister. It really is well worth a read.
I wasn’t referring to most dogs, we were specifically discussing one extraordinarily extreme dog. I agree, Carole’s dog is not exaggerated in any way, but again, as you are aware I was referring to one specific, extremely exaggerated dog on this thread.
I will be very interested to see Linda Shaw’s illustration when it becomes available.
Kevin Nance – beautiful dog! Hallelujah! You can just see that this dog is made correctly and everything is just where it is meant to be. Just beautiful.
by noddi on 28 March 2012 - 20:50
|Blitzen,one wonders whether Joanro knows how the gsd came about....Acroo between 2 german herding breeds..Wurtenberger/Thuringer(spellings prob.not correct.One a long coated breed with dropped ears n the other a shorter harsher coat with pricked ears.No mention of a BORZOI.Maybe Joanro would like to provide us with a photo of her gsds n wots sport she does with them be it show,shutzhund,working trials,obedience/agility or just as pets,which is absolutely fine.I would provide a photo of my Chiki but am not computer savvy enuf to know how to,maybe a facebook friend of mine could do it for me(my profile pic is the one to put on here)Keith,so true,why we do it i dont know,as i said before ...banging ones head against a brick wall.Its the same here in the UK,with other breed ppl n the alsatian side.Joanro,why on earth is the way we show exhibitors stand our dogs so preposterous?????Mine have stood in this pose by theirselves,quite naturally,when something has caught their eye.TOTALLY NATURAL TO A WELL BALANCED CORRECT BACKLINED GSD.Nufin nicer to see,fills my eye when i see my girls doing it.Carole Spelman Rheinmeister gsds.OH BTW.Nitey nite.|
by joanro on 28 March 2012 - 22:02
|Noddi, before you nod, if you notice, I said GSL. I didn't say gsd as a breed. When one looks at the GSL a similarity can be seen between some and the borzoi. And I doubt that Blitzen would know what I do or don't know, but I'm sure you were just asking her rhetorically. If in fact the borzoi had ever been introduced into the GSL, I doubt that you or any one else would be privy to that information;) anyway, as I said, I "pondered the thought". I didn't say it DID happen, so no point in going ape shit over a person wondering aloud. And as far as I'm concerned, all you experts can just keep on justifying all those deformed specimens of the gsd. There's no debate permitted in your world unless every one jumps on your band wagon. "Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite".|
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 23:06
|Just the SL's are subject to corruption with borzoi blood, Noddi. The WL's remain pure.|