German Shepherd Dog > Roach Back vs Straight Back - show (112 replies)
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 13:25
|Well, then, maybe all the judges who put dogs up that do not conform to the breed standard should be boycotted. When they don't get entries they won't be asked back by the breed club. Two problems will be solved; judges not adhering to the breed standard would no longer have a negative influence on the breed and fanciers would have available to them dogs bred with adherence to the breed standard that would be able to win in the show ring. Boycotting these judges would pave the path to normal, sound GSDs since the normal, non-extreme dogs would no longer be forced to the back of the line. No way should the deciding factor for breeding be the dog chosen by a third party with possibly poor taste and not having the future of the breed in mind. Choosing dogs for mating using this as the main criteria is the reason the breed is in the state of decline we see today. The only way to reverse this decline is to realize the show ring needs drastic changes. These changes can be accomplished by fanciers who are unhappy with the sight of deformed dogs in the ring winning--- don't give your approval to the judges who put them up by entering under them. The very same philosophy can be applied to the sport of schH and the "working dog".|
by Blitzen on 27 March 2012 - 14:42
|Joanro, in theory you are right. However,if people who show in conformation at SV shows would boycott all the judges who put up roach backs, they would never enter another show. I'm not sure how many SV judges there are, but it's not many and we usually see the same 5 or 6 at every show in the US. Also shows are few and far between. Judge's critiques generally include the term "roach" so they do recognize that as a feature of most of the dogs, but I'm never sure if it's used in a negative or positive way.|
I don't show in conformation events, so I'll leave it to those who do to address why they won't boycott judges who put up dogs with roaches.
by Blitzen on 27 March 2012 - 15:03
This is a link to the photos from the Carolina WD show last weekend. Not all dogs who placed well there had prominent roach backs. There was one very nice WL dog entered in the Working Dog Class.
by Ibrahim on 27 March 2012 - 17:12
|Many of the dogs we think are roached are actually not and is only due to the way they're stacked. A true roach is well seen while a dog is gaiting, here's a VA dog gaiting, please watch and see how perfect her topline is, see how effective her gaiting is, nothing is more beautiful than a beautiful GSD. Though the handler is straining her on the leash you can still see how correct her back is. Enjoy|
by Blitzen on 27 March 2012 - 17:26
|Excellent, Ibrahim!! Thanks.|
by Ibrahim on 27 March 2012 - 17:47
|This is a recent VA GSD, some might think he'e roached in stack|
but see how correct is his back in movement
And just for comparison look at Dingo vom haus gero
And look at him
If Dingo's near hock was placed perfectly vertical to the ground and his far hock more pointing to the outside he would have looked "more roached".
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 17:57
|People's preference-- that's why the dogs are being bred the way they are. Nothing will cange until they crash and burn in self- destruction........|
by Ibrahim on 27 March 2012 - 18:03
I am not saying there are no roached backs and I'm not saying I am pro roach backs, I only wanted to highlight a fact that many of the dogs thought to be roached are actually not plus a true roach will be so evident in movement, here's a true roach
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 18:17
|Ibrahim, look at the dogs in your previous post : the top of the butt is level or below level of the point of the shoulder. That is not normal for a dog, but for a hyena it is fine:) The breed will be better off when people orient themselves to what normal looks like.|
by Ibrahim on 27 March 2012 - 19:00
|Joanro, I say look at the dog in movement and/or in a non-deceiving stack. Here is same dog several pictures and I assure you his back is level/straight with no roach at all.|
And here is how he naturally looks like
by Hundmutter on 27 March 2012 - 19:15
Glad there's somebody sane and clear-eyed on this thread.
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 20:04
|That's one way of justifying your opinion :) hmutter.|
by GSDguy08 on 27 March 2012 - 20:54
|No one can tell me with this dog that it's the "stack". I guess you might not call this a roach, but in no way is this back normal....|
I edited out the picture of the other dog in this ad, along with the person's head. I don't know the breeder, and I don't know if anyone on here does, but I figured I would do that so maybe they wouldn't be brought up (just keeping names out of this).
by Von Savitch K9 on 27 March 2012 - 21:07
|I really wish showline people would go find another breed. THIS IS A WORKING DOG first and formost and should be breed accordingly. If things kep going the way the are the GSD will be gone forever.|
Roach Back, bad hips, bad temperment, weak nerve all given to us by showline people the most destructive force in the GSD
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 21:14
|Ibrahim, that's good looking dog. But he doesn't have even a remotely roached back, even in the pic of him stacked. Granted, stacking a dog does exaggerate a bad back. This is a pointless discussion because their are too many people who don't mind breeding or buying dogs with terrible structure.|
by mimi on 27 March 2012 - 21:15
|Hate roach backs too...|
Here is my boy, from show lines, a VA-Kevin Vom Murrtal son.
He is not stacked in that picture but does not have a roach back anyway.
Nice working dog, French Ring Level 1, CDX, HIC, CGN and H& E certified.
I don't show my dogs, only work with them.
by joanro on 27 March 2012 - 21:28
|Mimi, that's a nice dog--much more moderate and more sound :)|
by Ibrahim on 27 March 2012 - 21:31
|Von Savitch k9,|
That is a wild generalization about the showline people and not the nicest thing I ever heard, do you think all showlines are roached or have bad hips or lack temp. and nerves? That is one of the most uneducated comments that can be said or heard by a fellow member, since you are so authoritative on the breed and I see you are a breeder will you please educate us and name to us the achievements you've done so far to your own breed type, how far did you reach with your own dogs/your own breedings so we can understand how you dared to degrade all show line owners and breeders !!! Show us please how great you yourself are so showline people raise their hats to your highness and quit the showline GSD for the sake of your eyes.
by Von Ward Kennels on 27 March 2012 - 22:43
|There was a recent post where a guy was asking people's opinions of his showline. My comment was that it would not have far to squat when it went poo. Well this was taken as being terribly rude and mean to the owner of the dog. Why didn't anyone else have the nerve to say something? Everyone told him he had a lovely dog and now that owner will probably think he has somehting nice enough to breed only because it had a great Ped! Just because a dog has a incredible pedigree does not make it a nice looking dog.|
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 01:00
|Von Ward, has it ever occurred to you that there may be more constructive ways to critique a dog than to childishly say - "it would not have far to squat when it went poo"? How old are you anyway? If you knew anything at all about canine anatomy you would have said what most said - take a better picture with the dog in a better pose so we can critique him fairly.|
BTW, I looked at your website and, if I were you, I'd be more careful about critisizing anyone else's dogs.