German Shepherd Dog > Breeder's code of ethics (70 replies)
by Red Sable on 28 March 2012 - 09:43
|I have seen pet breeders mostly that require a spay/neuter, usually by a year of age. I think it's a joke. Here they are (and I've seen this personally) selling oversized spooks that barely resemble GSD's, no titles, often no hip checks, selling a dog for over a Grand, yet telling buyers what to do with their dogs. Hypocrites. They can keep their dogs.|
Personally, I think hormones are for more then sex, and if breeders REALLY care about over population of pets, they themselves wouldn't be breeding!
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 11:53
|Daryl, I didn't say you don't health test and why would I worry about what you do with your dogs? Since you want to challenge every suggestion regarding breeders' responsibililties to their buyers, I asked you which tests YOU feel are essential prior to breeding. I first looked at your website and didn't see much mentioned about health or performance testing ergo the question. |
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 12:11
|RS, I see nothing wrong with asking that a pet quality dog is neutered. I don't know of many litters that haven't produced dogs that aren't breed worthy for one reason or another.|
by darylehret on 28 March 2012 - 12:19
|One of the bad things about being a breeder in the U.S., is it's difficult to get a solid feel for how YOU are producing in your own program. Only a third to a half of my puppy buyers express their desire to get involved in a working venue, and many of THOSE never do. That many or less even submit their AKC papers AT ALL for registration, and fewer still xray hips/elbows for OFA. That's a huge disadvantage to standing breeders and their future generations. So then naturally, it's easier to SELECT from european stock, because of generations of production results with fewer instances of OMITED information. So what about BUYER responsibility? No one wants to hear what the breeder's "requirements" are for the pup (i.e., hips/elbows), and there's no real recourse if they don't follow through. Don't get me wrong though, it's for the most part their dog to do with as they like in my eyes.|
by Ibrahim on 28 March 2012 - 12:37
|Some of top breeders wouldn't sell you a pup if they're not sure it will be HD/ED tested provided it is trained and titled and the pup wouldn't be a future star prospect, such puppies are kept for themselves or their breeder/trainer friends. Some of the top breeders wouldn't sell a puppy outseide their own country, I was once denied a puppy and the reason 'I don't send my puppies abroad'.|
Those breeders have a lot of prospect buyers waiting in the que so they can force their own terms and hence can keep extraordinary records and follow up on their offspring.
A small breeder will never be able to excell at this part of the breeding unless his breeding program brings high attention through high achievements and that is less likely but it can be done.
A buyer who does not want to breed or is not involved in show or sport wouldn't HD/ED test, those who do are a minute minority I imagine. An average breeder has no means to force his/her buyers to do specific things with their dogs as I imagine.
I add: I noticed that in Germany usually breeders work together in groups, that gives them a better chance at competing and taking their breeding program forward.
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 12:49
|Ibrahim, you took the words right out of my mouth. AND serious dog people are not going to buy dogs from breeders who don't health test and trial their breeding stock. Why would they?|
by Ibrahim on 28 March 2012 - 13:10
|I had many lengthy discussions with my friends here about breeding, it is easy to breed beautiful dogs and select from the offspring and continue, the harder part is to establish or continue with a health sound line unless you have scientific establishments to back you up. The even harder part is to establish or continue a character sound line if you don't train yourself (breeder himself or his own trainer) and go through the experiment of getting to feel and know your own dogs and make a vision of what they could pass to their offspring, breeding without health follow up and training follow up is just like half blind walking in a busy avenue. One will never reach the top, he will produce some good and some bad and every now and then a very good one but he can never say he has a breeding program but still he can be called a breeder.|
Here: means in my country
by Ninja181 on 28 March 2012 - 14:10
|Allow me to sum up this Breeder's code of ethics with one picture:|
by darylehret on 28 March 2012 - 16:12
AND serious dog people are not going to buy dogs from breeders who DO health test and trial their breeding stock. So then what's the point in it? They're going to import from the latest popular european producers anyway. Look at our national schutzund competitors and tell me how many had home-bred dogs you see. Very few indeed, and for every ONE, there's hundreds more from the same breeder doing NOTHING they were tailored for. You can't to base your breeding program on less than one percent of your customers, overproducing fitness for such a minute demand. Definitely not my goal. The sporting venues in this country can't uphold it, the number of "serious dog people" are too few to support the demand necessary for a "serious breeding strategy". And OH MY......... could you really imagine any of US working "together"?!! We're divided on so many levels, it's ridiculous.
by GSDPACK on 28 March 2012 - 16:54
|keep some stock back and do it yourself! Takes some time but really teaches you tons about the dogs you produce.|
by Ibrahim on 28 March 2012 - 17:10
|What Daryl just said rang a bell, I will say what many believe in my country and that is not necessarily my belief or correct, just thought to mention it:|
Human is super to all other animals, God created all animals for the service of human, some to eat and some to work for him, dogs are included, to serve human.
People here mainly use dogs to herd and or guard, recently owning small show dogs at home is picking up, but basically the dog is to serve as guard and or for sheep herding. They believe that all animalls should be treated humanely but without spoiling, there is a common saying here, a dog which does not protect its place is not worh the food given to it. Many think that in the West World dogs are being served by human not the way around.
Please no one takes this negatively, nothing meant in ill spirit, I only thought of mentioning it, if anyone finds it inappropriate I will remove it.
by Red Sable on 28 March 2012 - 18:05
|Many think that in the West World dogs are being served by human not the way around.|
I think there is much truth to that Ibrahim. No offence taken here, as I think we are a little screwy in the West.
Blitzen, I agree pet quality dogs can be neutered, but not before a year. Unfortunately breeders (most of them) are quite willing to sell you a dog for breeding, (if you want to pay more) no matter what the quality of the dog is.
As for the pet breeders I was referring to, all they do is breed pet quality, so who are they to tell anyone anything? They should spay and neuter their breeding stock.
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 19:28
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 19:33
|Huh? Serious GSD breeders I know buy from and breed to other's dogs all the time. I'm not following your line of thinking at all, Daryl. Where did you get your dogs? Weren't they attained from reliable breeders who health and performance tested their parents?|
by GSD Admin on 28 March 2012 - 20:08
|I wouldn't neuter before 2.5 years, I don't see humans fixing their kids(unless medically necessary) until they are adults. You can't take away the hormones in my opinion and develop male characteristics. Tried it years ago and have seen it plenty of times, doesn't appear to work. Even some vets will tell you that exact same thing, well if they have a lick of sense.|
JMO for the little it is worth here.
I don't think you could get 10 people to agree on anything. People don't want to work together unless you do it their way or what they perceive to be the right way. Just what I have noticed in all my years of existence.
by darylehret on 28 March 2012 - 20:46
|I thought "serious dog people" was refering to handlers, not breeders.|
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 21:00
|No, I was talking about other breeders.|
by darylehret on 29 March 2012 - 12:09
|Well then, there basically ARE no serious dog breeders in this country, and those that come close don't purchase their breeding stock from other US breeders (i.e., me).|
by beetree on 29 March 2012 - 12:34
IMHO this is just wrong. We have 12 member juries who do it all the time. Right or wrong, they do agree, unanimously.
Sorry to interrupt this thread. Carry on.
by Blitzen on 29 March 2012 - 12:40
Too bad you haven't met more GSD breeders in the US, Daryl.