German Shepherd Dog > Conformation Showing forum (54 replies)
by Blitzen on 22 March 2012 - 00:09
Vom Savitch, your post would probably be more appreciated in the working forum or in a thread that is not addressing conformation showing.
by Von Savitch K9 on 22 March 2012 - 00:12
|Dont need to be appreciated makeing a much needed point.|
by Slamdunc on 22 March 2012 - 00:13
Are you saying that Prager no longer posts here because of me? Let's be direct and clear the air, because I happen to disagree with you. Prager and I had our differences, especially on that thread you referenced. Ultimately, he did the right thing and resolved everything. Besides some philosophical differences I have no issues with Hans. One thing about Hans, when he has an issue he tells you exactly what it is and I respect that about him.
by beetree on 22 March 2012 - 00:25
|Yeah, I am all ears on this one, too. Except, I'm pretty sure he still considers me the embodiment of evil.|
by Slamdunc on 22 March 2012 - 00:28
Join the club. It seems some consider me that as well.
by Gustav on 22 March 2012 - 00:33
|Ibrahim, you are a class act and a person who sincerely wants to absorb as much knowledge as possible to "help" the breed. I commend you for that. I have seen you balanced and subjective when it comes to conformation dogs without getting defensive. The only way to learn or progress is to acknowledge our shortcoming and take appropriate actions to fix them. I have been critical of the direction of WL and SL. There is no need for me to harp on the postives of either line as they are intact and inherent currently in the types. But the deficiencies that are glaring to a large degree in both should be analyzed and discussed without emotion or nastiness. For many they simply cannot do this...so the breed becomes relegated to continuing these faults or omissions, because people can't discuss them like adults. Eventually, knowledgable people fall by the wayside and the people left can only talk about positives ....which isn't helping the line, or they really don't have the knowledge or character to engage in dialogue to improve the line. I think this has occurred on the conformation forum.....when you can only deal in positives there comes a time when not a lot of meaningful dialogue is taking place.....notwithstanding, that the general public is still seeing the faults of the respective lines everyday and start seeking dogs that don't come from certain lines.|
I don't post on conformation forum, not because I can't provide any knowledge to this area of the breed, but because if I have to be a rah rah rah person to particpate, when there are some things that need to be fixed, then I can't in good conscience help to strengthen something that could use fixing. JMO
by Shawty on 22 March 2012 - 00:35
|Slamdunc, I did not read anywhere that GSD accused you individually for Hans not posting. You might be one of many the contributed to running him off, but I would not single you out and I don't think GSD intended for you to take it that way.|
I hope we can keep the drama to a minimum and use this thread to communicate ways to improve things on the database, not take steps backward.
by GSD Admin on 22 March 2012 - 00:44
|I think Hans doesn't post here for a lot of reasons. I don't think it is your fault. I think there are many reasons why certain members do not post here any longer.|
I don't think you inferring he was a fat czech was cool. I am sure there are personal things you don't want said about you.
I did however read your post on lefora, how you posted about the malware to bait me into a response so this will be my last post to you on this thread.
by Blitzen on 22 March 2012 - 00:45
Bee and Jim, you are both the embodiments of evil
by Slamdunc on 22 March 2012 - 00:52
|I was addressing what was said and what was implied. If you go back and read his post you will see the reference. I'll paste it here so it is clear:|
I don't think you need to direct this at me. I think you need to direct it to the people on your list who called the guy fat and harassed him. These are the reasons he is not here. Sure he was mad at not having his link but he had gotten over it.
I don't think anyone "ran Hans off." He is an adult and seems very happy and busy with his own forum. The beauty of the internet and the written word and meanings possibly lost with out tone and inflection. I take it differently than you, and I am happy to agree to disagree about what was meant.
by Blitzen on 22 March 2012 - 00:59
|Okay, IMO most SL breeders I've met know that their dogs need improvement. Honest to gawd, WL guys, we do not need to read what pieces of shit our dogs are. Can't you please extend to us the courtesy of allowing us to discuss our dogs without being constantly reminded about all their faults? Pretty please? Thanks so much.|
by Shawty on 22 March 2012 - 02:01
|Slamdunc, I still don't see the comment blaming you personally. I am happy to agree to disagree. Enough said.|
by Slamdunc on 22 March 2012 - 02:27
I am the only one listed that participated in the other thread. So, there you go. I made one (1) comment as a joke and others carried it to far and others used it to distract attention from the point of the thread. Mea culpa.
My post on the malware was on this site on the OT section. Back to that memory thing, I posted it directly on here. I have had virus warnings and malware from this site and I'm not the only one. There is nothing that I have posted on any other sites that I won't post here. You can ask and I will share the things I have and haven't posted anywhere else. Unlike some, I have nothing to hide and prefer things out in the open, I think you know that.
by Mackenzie on 22 March 2012 - 05:53
|Why don't you guys in the US keep to the thread itself instead of continually sniping at each other. Quite frankly it's not productive to the subject and it is also not really that intelligent.|
To shawty the moderater, why don't you deal with these offenders solely by PM's instead of posting on the thread. You are only helping to detract from the subject itself. This tit for tat process serves only to drive away good contributors. If they cannot, or, will not conduct themselves in a proper manner then get rid of them.
by Ibrahim on 22 March 2012 - 06:44
|I mentioned Prager as an example but there are others who left the forum, since it is acknowledged that some good contributors left the forum then we as administration as well as members should address this issue for the welfare of the PDB. If we can bring them back well and good if not let us not loose more of the Prager like.|
So no one thinks Prager is the issue here, I'm only using his name as an example as he was well known to most of the members, he used to share experience, history and generated some of the best threads to read and reference to on the PDB. That is a fact, he used the forum to advertise his breeding program, that is natural, he made mistakes in his life and in his breeding practice, maybe true but who didn't? I myself think that when for example Mackenzie, Jim, Gustav or Blitzen have a decent hot discussion with Prager and each present a different point of view and in the process share experience and knowledge we all benefit, the PDB benefits, when someone starts a thread he/she means dialogue and it needs more than one to do that, if only one point of view is presented in a discussion it is useless.
When a discussion remains impersonal and personal agendas kept aside mature members can handle whatever disagreeing views presented against theirs.
If PDB wants to grow then healthy atmosphere must be maintained, if breed issues are to be discussed and debated all members should be encouraged to participate irregardless of stands, beliefs or likes, administration has the upper hand on all of this, just my opinion. Let younger members hear all views in equal appreciation and each can decide for him/herself which is productive and which is not, which is of benefit and which is useless, by time they can also learn who is for real and who is living in imagination, and they can decide in which camp they want to be or they can build their own ideas for improving the breed or at least how the breed can be preserved so it does not deteriorate. In the end it is a free world. Administration has a more responsibility in providing equal chances for the members to exchange varying thoughts and views in a constructive healthy atmosphere.
by Ibrahim on 22 March 2012 - 12:19
|Allow me just to make a clarification, this post is not about any specific person whether a member or administrator, maybe I shouldn't have used names as examples, what I want to say is simply this|
I noticed extremely low activity in the forums in general especially the conformation showing one.
Any thoughts why?
Any ideas to improve this?
Did some of the decisions administration made resulted in this?
Do you think some of the members who quit can add to the breed and forums if we can bring some of them back? not a specific person in my mind here.
What is it we are doing wrong to each other that might decreased the activity?
How can we protect the good guys, good contributors, knowledgable members we benefit from from running away?
What can we do that might help bring us closer instead of more seperation?
I personally think:
splitting the forums wasn't the right thing to do.
We should all be able to freely express our views without fear or discrimination based on the show/work types, and not make personal attacks based on personal agendas, show some respect, and not use the PDB to trap a prospect into buying a (faulty pup or dog) in health or etc etc, and not degrade other's hard work and or achievements. Isn't achieving all of the above part of the administration duty? and don't you think we should support the administration and cooperate to achieve that?
by Blitzen on 22 March 2012 - 12:33
by Gustav on 22 March 2012 - 14:06
I must say that I think you are overly defensive....take me for example...I have not said one mean spirited thing about SL dogs.....have I pointed out flaws...yes, but I have never called them derogatory names, or profane names. Have I pointed out flaws in WL lines through sport breeding (especially on the T litter Nachbarshaft)...yepperoo.
I think one of the problems is the constant bringing up of these problems acutely shows many practitioners don't want to fix them because of winning or Likes. Case in point....I am constantly harping on how many WL breeders are producing dogs with such "prey" imbalances that the dogs are now more sleeve sucker than working. Now this irritates some of the WL breeders, but many WL breeders have gotten in touch with me and others and asked for suggestions of dogs that can genetically improve this situation. Or dogs moving away from the T litter . These same breeders are breeding outside of these lines now bringing in Czech blood, DDR blood, and older German blood to move more back to balance. Now when I bring up breeding genetically outside of SL lines in color and bloodlines....you meet this shut down and no follow up. If you press the point; that you can't keep breeding to the same dog's cousins and brothers and sisters, and improve the weaknesses or creations of the line, they become defensive and resort to saying you are bashing. Noooo, not bashing, just bringing out a point that is reinforced year after year as this refusal to bring in new blood continues. I am doing the same thing with both WL and SL; but everyone says they LOVE this breed, but many in the breed love what they like or love winning more than they love the breed. YES, many SL people think I bash the SL, I don't bash anything, I want to improve the breed....not WL or SL but the breed. But it takes different solutions to bring balance to different types, so that's what I propose. Isn't this what we should expect from elder members of the Breed???????????
by Blitzen on 22 March 2012 - 14:29
|I didn't say you did, Gustav. Shall I go through a few threads and copy you on the posts I'm referring to? Overly sensitive? What about the way some of the WL people went off when I related the negative experiences I've had with WL's? Maybe you missed those posts too? |
by Gustav on 22 March 2012 - 14:57
I know you didn't say me and I don't think you think of me that way......my point is that many of us get frustrated with the messenger being bashed and not the message sinking in. Like you said, when you conformation people get together you realize the flaws.....no problem...but what is left unsaid is what is determined to be DONE to move more back to balance. You never hear that discussed and even see it done less. That's why things look the same and feel the same and others on the outside that want to see the balance lose credibility in believing many SL care about the status. NOT saying they don't care, am saying if you don't hear it discussed openly with examples of moving more to balance then its really a farce. Same with sport lines, and more drive than brains dogs....faulty!!!! And I will speak out against it as long as it is proliferating in the working community.